Employment & IU in IU - Individual Unemployability Forum

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vethusband41

Employment & IU

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Posts: 729

Jul 17 11 2:01 AM

How much can someone earn from employment without loosing IU? I know with SS it's $1000 per month and $720 for trial work period to kick in. Is this the same for VA Compenation? Wife and I have a offer to be a Camp Ground Host next spring. It pays $600 a month.

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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LouF

#1

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Posts: 12935

Jul 17 11 5:35 AM

10,000 plus post...

The rule is you can only have marginal earnings which the VA defines as less than the poverty level where you live. I don't think a few months at 600 is going to hurt. That is for physical 100%. If the pending PTSD claim where to come in at 100% then no work at all, the definition of 100% is TOTAL occupational impairment whereas 70% is SEVERE. Although PTSD doesn't forbid you work they could demote you to 70%

Lou SSG
Santa Fe NM
4/21 11LIB Americal
1/69-8/70
50% PTSD
60% IHD
100% IU P&T

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vetforus

#2

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Posts: 2976

Jul 17 11 8:02 AM

Just a quick note about income and IU. If someone on IU makes around $6,000 or so in a year (the exact figure is not known) the Pension and Maintenance Center (they monitor IU and other programs) will do an Income Verification Match with IRS, VA, and Social Security. When they see the IU Income (above their threshold amount) they are required to notify the Veterans Regional Office (RO) who have steps they take. The RO could pull the veterans file, review it and decide to have a C/P exam, or do nothing. Also if someone on IU chooses to work you should tell VA when you do your annual IU form. Most likely then VA would determine it is marginal income, assuming your income is very low. Of course that could trigger a C/P.

IMO it's not worth taking a chance.

You paid a price, you deserve to be compensated. Thank you for your Service.

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PAguy

#3

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Posts: 578

Jul 17 11 10:28 AM

vetforus wrote:
Just a quick note about income and IU. If someone on IU makes around $6,000 or so in a year (the exact figure is not known) the Pension and Maintenance Center (they monitor IU and other programs) will do an Income Verification Match with IRS, VA, and Social Security. When they see the IU Income (above their threshold amount) they are required to notify the Veterans Regional Office (RO) who have steps they take. The RO could pull the veterans file, review it and decide to have a C/P exam, or do nothing. Also if someone on IU chooses to work you should tell VA when you do your annual IU form. Most likely then VA would determine it is marginal income, assuming your income is very low. Of course that could trigger a C/P. IMO it's not worth taking a chanc

e. Definition: Marginal Employment

Marginal employment
exists

when a veteran’s earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. Census Bureau, as the poverty threshold for one person, and/or

on a facts-found basis, and includes, but is not limited to, employment in a protected environment, such as a family business or sheltered workshop, when earned annual income exceeds the poverty threshold.

Note
: The U.S. Census Bureau revises the poverty thresholds annually. When the revised amounts are published, Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) revises M21-1MR, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.32.b.
Important
:

Do not consider marginal employment as substantially gainful employment.

Do not consider amounts received from participation in the Veterans Health Administration’s (VHA’s) Compensated Work Therapy (CWT) Program as income for IU purposes.

Reference
: For more information on the poverty threshold, see M21-1MR, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.32.

I read the rule as depends on type of work enviroment. It says "veteran’s earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. Census Bureau, as the poverty threshold for one person" But also says And/OR on a facts-found basis, and includes, but is not limited to, employment in a protected environment, if u make more than the proverty threshold.

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vethusband41

#4

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Posts: 729

Jul 17 11 11:28 AM

Actually it's a volunteer position with a $600 monthly stipend. Is this ok?

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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classsi

#5

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Posts: 621

Jul 17 11 11:44 AM

Are you also a DAV?? If you are not personally 100% for MH issues, or IU, then why could it not just be treated as you getting the income/stipend?? Why would it have to be income to your wife?

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vethusband41

#6

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Posts: 729

Jul 17 11 1:28 PM

I'm on SS Disability and can't make over $720/month in earned income.

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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vetforus

#7

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Posts: 2976

Jul 17 11 3:41 PM

You're quoting the Poverty Threshold vs. the Pension Maintenance center. Each have their own rules. Veterans can do what they want. I just give the facts for those to make their own decision.

PAguy wrote:
vetforus wrote:

Just a quick note about income and IU. If someone on IU makes around $6,000 or so in a year (the exact figure is not known) the Pension and Maintenance Center (they monitor IU and other programs) will do an Income Verification Match with IRS, VA, and Social Security. When they see the IU Income (above their threshold amount) they are required to notify the Veterans Regional Office (RO) who have steps they take. The RO could pull the veterans file, review it and decide to have a C/P exam, or do nothing. Also if someone on IU chooses to work you should tell VA when you do your annual IU form. Most likely then VA would determine it is marginal income, assuming your income is very low. Of course that could trigger a C/P. IMO it's not worth taking a chanc

e. Definition: Marginal Employment

Marginal employment
exists

when a veteran’s earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. Census Bureau, as the poverty threshold for one person, and/or

on a facts-found basis, and includes, but is not limited to, employment in a protected environment, such as a family business or sheltered workshop, when earned annual income exceeds the poverty threshold.

Note
: The U.S. Census Bureau revises the poverty thresholds annually. When the revised amounts are published, Veterans Benefits Administration (VBA) revises M21-1MR, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.32.b.

Important
:

Do not consider marginal employment as substantially gainful employment.

Do not consider amounts received from participation in the Veterans Health Administration’s (VHA’s) Compensated Work Therapy (CWT) Program as income for IU purposes.

Reference
: For more information on the poverty threshold, see M21-1MR, Part IV, Subpart ii, 2.F.32.
I read the rule as depends on type of work enviroment. It says "veteran’s earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce, U.S. Census Bureau, as the poverty threshold for one person" But also says And/OR on a facts-found basis, and includes, but is not limited to, employment in a protected environment, if u make more than the proverty threshold.

You paid a price, you deserve to be compensated. Thank you for your Service.

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cruiser

#8

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Posts: 17419

Jul 17 11 3:57 PM

Keep in mind that at the end of the day it boils down to whether VA thinks that you are capable or incapable of engaging in gainful employment, regardless of how little the amount is. If VA determines that you are capable of engaging in gainful employment you aren't entitled to IU whether you actually have a job or not.

Your IU won't be terminated solely because you are working part time, but such employment does damage your argument that you can't work if VA were to make that determination. And like someone said, the cross match with IRS will alert VA that you have earned income which will in turn probably trigger an inquiry.

Cruiser

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LouF

#9

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Posts: 12935

Jul 17 11 4:54 PM

10,000 plus post...

The stipend would depend on if they report it as SS wages

Lou SSG
Santa Fe NM
4/21 11LIB Americal
1/69-8/70
50% PTSD
60% IHD
100% IU P&T

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vethusband41

#10

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Posts: 729

Jul 18 11 8:39 AM

I don't think they report because it is not wages...

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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cruiser

#11

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Posts: 17419

Jul 18 11 9:44 AM

vethusband41 wrote:
I don't think they report because it is not wages...

Most payments that are classified as a "stipend" are taxable income. Probably the most notable exception to this are stipends paid to students are part of a scholarship or fellowship. The key is whether or not the stipend is paid to you for "services rendered."

For example, take two college students in graduate school. One gets a scholarship that pays him a stipend of $500 a month while the other gets selected as a graduate assistant, also with a stipend of $500 a month. The scholarship payment isn't generally taxable income because it isn't contingent on him performing any services for the entity that granted the scholarship. The graduate assistant on the other hand must actually teach a class for the university in order to receive his stipend which comes from the university. In other words he must render a service to the entity that is paying the stipend.

In the situation we have here, I am assuming that DAV will only pay the stipend if you carry out certain duties for DAV. In other words are you required to do work for DAV to get the money? If so, I'm almost positive that it will be taxable income.

Cruiser

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gmurphy

#12

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Posts: 558

Jul 18 11 9:47 AM

Has anyone on Veterans Benefits Network had their IU taken away from them for marginal employment,would be great to hear a real life story,not what ifs.

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vethusband41

#13

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Posts: 729

Jul 18 11 10:40 AM

Cruiser we work be Campground hosting not working for DAV. She would do the labor dump trash etc. and I would deal with people. They provide a stipend for this volunteer position for 6 month so we are talking like $3000 a year.

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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.

#14

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Posts: 2420

Jul 18 11 10:52 AM

VH41, As long as I have been on VBN, we do not endorse or approve of ANYBODY working and collecting SSDI or VA compensation at the IU rate. You can quote the regulation and argue it to death (this has been done many times) but it will not change our position. It's entirely up to the veteran if they want to pursue that path.

I hope this helps you in understanding our approach. Thank You!

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71infantry

#15

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Posts: 4990

Jul 18 11 11:12 AM

vethusband41 wrote:
Actually it's a volunteer position with a $600 monthly stipend. Is this ok?

Yes it is legal.. The present National Commander of the DAV receives a monthly stripend because he drives from Fayetteville NC to Raleigh NC every day and has for the last 15 years....Someone complaned about this and the VA determined a stripend is not income.

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gmurphy

#16

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Posts: 558

Jul 18 11 11:28 AM

Peoplesniffer wrote:
VH41, As long as I have been on VBN, we do not endorse or approve of ANYBODY working and collecting SSDI or VA compensation at the IU rate. You can quote the regulation and argue it to death (this has been done many times) but it will not change our position. It's entirely up to the veteran if they want to pursue that path.

I hope this helps you in understanding our approach. Thank You!

I agree ,for many vets it's been a long haul to get IU,Letters from doctors you can't work ,forms to be filled out by former employers,C&P exams ,appeals,then you are finally awarded IU and some vets want to work. I would read my c file very carefully and see why i was given IU and if you have any claims pending how would your working effect your claims unless your not going to tell them your looking for work.

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vethusband41

#17

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Posts: 729

Jul 18 11 11:58 AM

LOL it's not work guys we don't want or need it. It's a volunteer camp host position with a stipend... We are talking $3000/yr.

JK - Vets Husband

Air Force 2002 - 2005
Medically Discharged
100% P&T - PTSD/MST
0% Bulimia
SSDI Pending

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gmurphy

#18

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Posts: 558

Jul 18 11 12:15 PM

vethusband41 wrote:
LOL it's not work guys we don't want or need it. It's a volunteer camp host position with a stipend... We are talking $3000/yr.

I understand your position and i'm not even talking now about the dollar amount,what about your PTSD claim still pending,when you tell your examiner at your C&P exam you want to be around people and you are going to volunteer as a greeter,how do you think that will effect the outcome of your exam.I'm not trying to knock what your trying to do but there could be repercussions.

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nmfxstc

#19

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Posts: 25186

Jul 18 11 12:30 PM

gmurphy wrote:
vethusband41 wrote:
LOL it's not work guys we don't want or need it. It's a volunteer camp host position with a stipend... We are talking $3000/yr.
I understand your position and i'm not even talking now about the dollar amount,what about your PTSD claim still pending,when you tell your examiner at your C&P exam you want to be around people and you are going to volunteer as a greeter,how do you think that will effect the outcome of your exam.I'm not trying to knock what your trying to do but there could be repercussions.

Fillean meal ar an meallaire.

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chicagobob25726

#20

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Posts: 3089

Jul 18 11 12:31 PM

THIS SUBJECT NEVER GOES AWAY!! WORKING AND IU...

"The NAVY CHIEF IS ALWAYS RIGHT"

CPO "INITIATED AND PROUD"
100% I.U/P&T/Combined 80%
70% G.A.D/MAJOR DEPRESSION
30% Headaches
10% Back
10% Knee

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