Hearing Loss - Starting the Process in VA Disability Claims (General) Forum

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Hearing Loss - Starting the Process

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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process		Lead	[-]
Posts: 1 Mar 29 11 3:21 AM	Tags : hearing, claims We'll it was by way of internet research for my husband's Kaiser audiology appointment tomorrow that I found this site. So, between what I've read on this site, been told by the VA and our local County VA office I have a few questions I'm hoping someone may be able to assist with. We were told that the Kaiser Audiologist needs to say on my husband's records is it's a 50/50 chance that his hearing loss is SC related (if it is a chance it could be)? Is this true? How can someone obtain a 0% SC disability? I've seen this noted on other topics regarding hearing loss. Does it make a difference if we request a copy of my husband's exit medical examination showing what his audiology report was at that time prior to us sending in his claim? We'd like it to compare and see what, if any, hearing loss he may have had at that time. Should we also request his induction medical records too? Met a Retired Disabled Veteran and he indicated NOT TO APPEAL whatever decision we receive, but to NOT ACCEPT it, even if it's 10%. He said by doing this, it would be sent to another reviewer when it's not accepted which is better than appealing and did say appealing is a different process which can take longer? Would this "not accepting" be a Notice of Disagreement (that I saw on these boards)? Should my husband complete a VA Form 21-4138 as I've read others on this forum have for hearing loss? I couldn't find the link that Barbie posted a while back on Military Equipment and Noise Levels which would be good to have, but did find a link from the Blanchfield Army Hospital's Hearing Conservation showing Steady and Impulse Noise along with the sound level(s). Though it's not entirely complete, I can at least have hubby circle any equipment and such that he used while in service. My husband was enlisted from 79' to 85'. We met and married three years after he discharged and have been married over 20 years. During these twenty years he's had several time where he's had significant wax buildup (mainly in one ear) to where he can't hear. I'm told this buildup occurs because of trauma to the ear. Does anyone have any knowledge of this? I've come across MANY internet sites regarding solvents and ear trauma combined can cause hearing loss. Specificaly it's caled Ototoxic Chemical (ear poison). Unless I missed it, I haven't seen any information related to this on these boards. Anyone have any knowledge of this? Today, the VA indicated he should complete VA Form 21-526 for Compensation (not Pension) for his hearing loss and ringing in his ears. Then seperately complete a 1010.EZ to use the VA medical facilities if needbe. We have Kaiser and since he's 50 (51 this year) they sent a card saying he should come in for a hearing test. I'm not happy!!! (See comment below why). After having this conversation with my husband, he informs me due to his work he's had hearing tests each year for the past 10 years and his hearing has, over these years, continued to get worse. So, of course when I find this out, he's getting a private test PERIOD! So, off tomorrow morning he's having his Kaiser hearing test. Here's his first test results from 10 years ago and the most current. I don't know what they mean. BTW, he also told me he doesn't remember having a hearing test when he discharged. He does remember having his 3rd molars removed and HAD to before they would allow him to discharge. They ended up suturing up GAUZE in his jaw and ended up in the infirmary for a week. Now, that I read where someone suggested to also claim on other related issues, I'm going to ask him in the morning when he wakes up which side of the mouth this happened on. You see, he's had to have gum surgery on a portion of his mouth and now I wonder if it's related. Here are the test results: 2000 1KP 500 1K 2K 3K 4K 6K 8K RT 10 10 10 10 15 15 15 15 LT 15 05 10 15 15 25 25 25 2004 RT 10 15 15 20 25 nothing on the rest of the report for 4K, 6K or 8L LT 10 10 15 20 25 2006 RT 20 15 20 20 15 25 25 25 From here on out these are all automated printout where the 2000 & 2004 were manually written. LT 15 15 15 20 20 25 35 35 2007 RT 15 20 20 25 35 30 55 LT 15 15 20 20 25 30 25 2008 RT 25 25 15 25 30 40 30 LT 20 20 20 25 35 45 45 2010 RT 15 15 15 15 20 30 40 LT 15 15 20 25 25 55 60 Sorry to have this first topic be so long. Since I noticed varing degrees in his numbers I felt it was best I post them all. I did ask him if he has any ringing in his ears and he said yes to both, but mainly in the left ear. He did have his ears cleaned of any wax two weeks ago to be ready for this appointment. Lastly, he was in Transportation group. WA, VA and Germany (Korea for 2 months as well). Around heavy machinery, generators, equipment, along with rifles and grenades (with no ear protection!). I also confirmed they used solvent tanks for cleaning parts, etc. at all three areas where he was stationed (hence the chemical question above). Any recommendations or comments would be apprecaited. Thank you!
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derek7337		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11 Mar 29 11 8:58 AM	Wish I could provide good advice to you. I claimed tinitus (ringing) and hearing loss. When QTC tested my hearing, the lady conducting the test made a comment that there is nothing wrong with my hearing. My service medical records show otherwise. So...guess I will be appealing or disagreeing, whichever my rep recommends. As to your questions I think I can help with, 2. 0% simply acknowleges that it is service connected but no compensation given. 3. Definitely use your husband's service medical records to show the trend and severity of hearing loss. 4. See 3. 5. What you were told is true in my opinion. I would file NOD before appealing. Both have advantage and disadvantage you should weigh first though. Advice - find someone (there's a few in membership here) who's successfully claimed hearing loss and get their advice as they've done what's required.
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daklander		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 959 Mar 29 11 12:39 PM	Tinnitus claims judgements will very often depend on MOS. Though Kaiser's statement, which should be something like, more likely than not, or something to that effect should help, I'm betting the VA will schedule an audio test either at the VAMC or an outside contractor such as QTC. In my tests the highest frequency was 4K and my averages are 25 db loss right and 40 db loss left ear. Using the same frequencies your latest numbers are 16 db loss right ear and 20 db loss left ear averages. Even using the full spectrum you're looking at 21 db loss right and 31 db loss left averages so I don't see any way to get anything other than a 0% rating it you can even get the loss SC. EM2 1969-1973
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hutsky		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2780 Mar 29 11 5:01 PM	I will try to address some of your questions. Yes, the VA will obtain and use the service entry and exit tests, if they exist, to assess whether a hearing loss occurred while in service. It might help you in determining whether or not to file a claim, but also read my comments below before making a decision. The VA will consider an opinion by a registered audiologist in determining service connection if it is supported by facts. I do not believe that a simple opinion that it was related to service by itself would carry much weight. The VA would probably order a test by a VA audiologist if there was any question. Disregarding the issue of service connection the VA considers hearing loss numbers (in dB) such as you have provided at 5 different frequencies ( 500, 1K, 2K, 3K, and 5K Hertz) AND the percentage of Word Recognition in determining hearing loss disability and compensation. The 500 Hz level is only used in determining a 0% rating. Both ears are considered. The information you presented from the 2010 test, if the numbers line up with the given frequency numbers, do not constitute what VA considers a hearing disability, even at 0%. He does have a high frequency loss in the one ear but it is above the range that VA used in making the rating. If you would like to check the data yourself you can refer to the regulation used by VA, CFR 38 §4.85-4.87. Or, I have a calculator located at: LINK I hope this helps. ADDED: One caveat that goes along with the above comment about the data not supporting a disability. To draw this conclusion the Word Recognition percentages would have to be considered. If WR in either ear were less than 94% it would constitute a current disability. However, the current data would not establish service connection. This must be done with other evidence. Edited 1 time by hutsky Mar 29 11 5:25 PM.
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broncovet		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 993 Mar 29 11 8:37 PM	Rawben 1. No. Your audiologist needs to state (not 50/50), but rather "your hearing loss is at least as likely as not related to noise exposure (or accoustic trauma, as applicable) suffered during military service. This is called a "nexus". 2. A "0% disability rating means that your (hearing loss) is service connected but is not severe enough to be compensable. Many Veterans have 0% ratings for hearing loss, and I used to be one of them until it was increased to 10%. It establishes "service connection", because hearing loss can be caused by many things which are not "service connected". For example, you could play in a rock band, you could operate loud equipment, etc OUTSIDE of the miltary. 3. Yes. Do request the "exit" hearing test. It could establish that your hearing was already damaged when you left the service. 4. Yes, if they are available. The "presumption of soundness" should cover you if they are not. In other words, the military gives you a physical upon entrance into the military. If no hearing defects are noted on the entrance exam, then it is assumed that you had no hearing loss prior to entering the military. 5. I dont agree with his advice. If you get a decision you dont agree with, the procedure is to file a "Notice of disagreeement". Under some circumstances, such as the decision maker not having important evidence, you can file a Motion For Recoonsideration (MFR), but most Vets advocates recommend you ALSO file a NOD if your MFR does not resolve things for you WITHIN ONE YEAR of the RO decision. 6. A 21-4138 is a "generic" form where the Veteran sends a statement in support of claim. There is a place for the Vets signature, where he certifies that the info contained on the form is true to the best of his knowledge. If your hubby operated loud equipment during miltary service, yes, he could fill in the 21-4138 and specify the equipment he operated. It may also be important to list the duration..if he operated a piece of equipment x hours per day, this is important. Noise exposure causing hearing loss is both in decibels, and in time. You will also need to file a "formal claim" if you have not already done so. A Veterans service Officer, such as DAV, VFW, normally available at your local VA mediclal center can assist you with the form and how to fill it out as well as where to send it to. 7. I also have trouble with wax buildup in the ears. He should point this out to his audiologist, VA or otherwise. 8. If you think your husband was exposed to solvents, that may have also caused issues, yes, he should inform his audiologist. 9. Yes. He needs to complete these forms, as they are required if he is to get any compensation, 0 percent or other wise. If your husband has issues, other than hearing loss, such as with his teeth or gums related to miltary service by all means include these issues on his claim. Generally, if they cause no symptoms, however, even if they are "service connected" they will be at 0 percent. If my memory serves me correctly, several zero percent disabilty ratings can "combine" to 10 percent. An important part of your disability rating will be his "speech discrimination" which you did not list. My hearing deteriorates at the rate of about 2-5% per year, which is fairly typical. My hearing loss is MUCH worse than your hubbies...my AVERAGE is about 55 decibels and I have several frequencies with a loss of 80 decibels. I can not watch TV at all without close captioning. I will get my 4th set of hearing aids early next year. The first set I got was NOT through the VA, as I was unaware that benefit was available to me back in 1997. I was "typical" in that I put up with hearing loss for about MORE than 10 years before I did anything about it, that is, got hearing aids. I recommend a class given in my town called "Living with hearing loss". Its excellent, and you should go with your hubby if his hearing gets much worse. Noise induced Hearing loss is generally both permanent and progressive, as is mine. I have a telephone which has "close captions", that is, what people say to me comes up in text on the screen. I love the phone, and just got it about 4 months ago. I also have another phone, that the VA provided, which has a very clear sound and a volume control. It is also excellent, as I need high sound quality to be able to understand the speaker. Even then, I dont get it and actually prefer the closed caption phone. I can hear and understand some people much better than others. My pastor has a very deep, strong voice, and I can even hear some of what he says without hearing aids, but prefer the aids. I can understand almost NONE of what children say, as their voice seems to be quiet and soft, and I cant understand people with an accent, that is, if English is not their first language. I can understand some of what my wife says if she speaks clearly, facing me, and is less than about 6 feet away, with little or no background noise. Any time there is background noise, such as other conversations, fan motors, traffic, etc, I can comprehend almost nothing of what is said. In a car, a cell phone is nearly useless to me, as there is too much background noise for me to get any of the conversation. A couple things you can do to help your hubby: 1. Dont be stingy rephrasing things for him. When he asks to "repeat" or "huh", say what you just said in different words. Repeating the same thing often will not be heard a second time any better than it was the first time. 2. Dont try to talk to him in another room. The further the distance, the less he will be able to hear. 3. Dont try to talk to him with your mouth full, or your hands or other objects in front of your face.
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fanaticbooks	A number of topics to possibly help you	#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4164 Mar 29 11 9:36 PM	Rawben, Welcome to VBN. I can't answer the technical stuff, but do have some suggestions for research. Here is a link to a topic listing a number of topics I have created. In it is a "Noise, MOS titles", "Training & Fast Letters" including hearing stuff, as well as multiple other topics that might be of use. http://vets.yuku.com/topic/49153/Listing--links--Fanaticbooks-extensive-research--Veteran-rel I wish you good journey, fanaticbooks www.howtoassemblevaclaims.com A free guide on how to research, organize and assemble a VA claim, now upgraded to include suggestions for VONAPP and Social Security Disability. Veterans are the mainstay of this country. Only they truly know the price of freedom. Only they can truly teach others like myself the price of freedom. Another Suggestion to Help Veterans... For those with too much time on their hands, check out table board hobbies; i.e., Warhammer 40,0000; Dungeons & Dragons; and others of their ilk. These provide varied and interesting features: Complex Mind Candy involving reading, rules, creating strategies and tactics; Model Building that allows additions of your own choosing to enhance play; Model Painting to your own creative design; Socializing face to face with others to play the games; Playing with the models on table boards to win objectives with quests and barriers to overcome.
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classsi		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 621 Mar 29 11 10:13 PM	Good suggestions from Bronc there near the end......reminded me of my Mom. She passed away last Sept at age 84. For the last 5 or so years of her life she had a great deal of difficulty hearing. She got hearing aids but could not wear them as they made her ears so sore. It got to where she missed at least half of what was said to her but seldom mentioned the difficulty she was having and hated to constantly have to ask for things to be repeated. Ya know....being human at times it would get frustrating to have to have the TV so loud or whatever...... My Mom was a huge baseball fan and now as we near opening day I would give pretty much anything and everything to have the chance to watch the games with her.....she could have the sound full blast and I would just get some earplugs.
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hutsky		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2780 Mar 30 11 12:24 AM	Rawbem, You mentioned several issues, including hearing loss, in the initial discussion. There are other disabling problems associated with the ears beside hearing loss, e.g., tinnitus, otitis, vertigo, etc. While the hearing data you provided did not include word discrimination rates what you did provide highly suggests that your husband does not presently have a loss the VA considers as a disability, in any of the past 10 year tests. Before the VA even considers a 0% disability one ear must have a dB loss at three of the first five listed frequencies that are 26 dB or greater, or one that is 40 dB, or word discrimination that is less than 94%. Loss above 4000 Hz. is not considered. You can certainly look at hearing tests that were conducted in service but it is unlikely that they will show results that are markedly worse than at the present. Unless something unusual is going on hearing does not improve with age. I point this out only to save you the anguish of filing a claim for something that has no chance of being approved. Certainly, look at all of the data and it supports a claim, then file one. If there are other problems, such as the tinnitus or physical problems that have been diagnosed, which can be associated with service, file a claim. I recommend that you visit one of the Veteran Service Organization Representatives with your information before filing a claim. If hearing aids are needed and your husband has any other compensated disability, the VA will provide them.
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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process	#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 4:51 PM	derek7337 wrote: Wish I could provide good advice to you. I claimed tinitus (ringing) and hearing loss. When QTC tested my hearing, the lady conducting the test made a comment that there is nothing wrong with my hearing. My service medical records show otherwise. So...guess I will be appealing or disagreeing, whichever my rep recommends. As to your questions I think I can help with, 2. 0% simply acknowleges that it is service connected but no compensation given. 3. Definitely use your husband's service medical records to show the trend and severity of hearing loss. 4. See 3. 5. What you were told is true in my opinion. I would file NOD before appealing. Both have advantage and disadvantage you should weigh first though. Advice - find someone (there's a few in membership here) who's successfully claimed hearing loss and get their advice as they've done what's required. Hello Derek - Thank you for your reply. This now makes sense what the 0% means. What are the advantages and disadvantes of filing an NOD in your opinion?
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Truckmaster		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1627 Mar 31 11 5:13 PM	If your husbands job is giving him hearing tests every year, then most likely they are doing it as part of a hearing conservation requirement, indicating that he normally works around high noise levels. either way, the VA is going to look at his hearing change from when he went in, and when he got discharged, if for some reason there is no hearing test from his discharge, then you will have a real hard time proving any hearing loss was caused by his time in service 26 years ago. especially since his test in 2000 (15 years after he got out), shows a normal hearing pattern. I think you will have a hard time finding any Audiologist that will agree that some event, or exposure, from will not cause a hearing loss until 15 years after exposure. Best of luck to you & your husband, but I don't think its a battle you will ever win. Fight for every little bit of your life back. Don't let them win.
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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process	#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 5:27 PM	daklander wrote: Tinnitus claims judgements will very often depend on MOS. Though Kaiser's statement, which should be something like, more likely than not, or something to that effect should help, I'm betting the VA will schedule an audio test either at the VAMC or an outside contractor such as QTC. In my tests the highest frequency was 4K and my averages are 25 db loss right and 40 db loss left ear. Using the same frequencies your latest numbers are 16 db loss right ear and 20 db loss left ear averages. Even using the full spectrum you're looking at 21 db loss right and 31 db loss left averages so I don't see any way to get anything other than a 0% rating it you can even get the loss SC. Daklander - His primary MOS was 64C20. Over our 20 years of being married, I'm seeing his hearing decline. He really didn't think his diminishing hearing was a big deal though did tell me (when I asked!) about his tinnitus. I didn't realize how bad it was. In addition, when he's talking on his cell phone and there's a radio on in the cab it's very heard to hear. IMO I thought it was best that we not wait and file a claim now. Then if his hearing continues to worsen at least we'd have it on file regardless of it being SC we attempted. I guess at this point if they don't claim it to be SC then it's a done deal and you can't file again in five or ten years when it's worse. I would be happy with even a 0% rating and not compensation. Any help in the future if he needs hearing aids, etc. would be a help!
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ritoab		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 64 Mar 31 11 5:41 PM	Ok, thought I'd respond to this post because I have been diagnose for 12 years at 0% hearing loss and I didn't know anything about nods or appeals process. Had I also known why My ears was ringing and why i was getting dizzy spells and stumbling from time to time was related to my hearing loss. As well why i was getting into fights with the woman and even the kids because i was misunderstanding some of the words they would use. Over the years I even notice I couldn't say words properly anymore etc... All these things are taken into consideration for hearing loss. Not just the actual sound test. I was 75db in right ear when i got out the miltary 12 years ago. Now I am 110db in my right ear and 65 in my left. I had no idea how bad my hearing was and how it affected my everyday life. It's all making so much since now to me and I file in October for increase for hearing loss but this time It's loaded with everything that is related to my hearing and not just the sound test. Ringing in ears, speech and word recognition, dizziness, staggering etc... That's the sort of evidence you need to provide if your husband is experiencing them. The point is, they all combine can make a difference whether he gets 0% or 30-100%. Again this is just my understanding of it and it may or may not be the case with your husband
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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process	#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 7:46 PM	hutsky wrote: I will try to address some of your questions. Yes, the VA will obtain and use the service entry and exit tests, if they exist, to assess whether a hearing loss occurred while in service. It might help you in determining whether or not to file a claim, but also read my comments below before making a decision. The VA will consider an opinion by a registered audiologist in determining service connection if it is supported by facts. I do not believe that a simple opinion that it was related to service by itself would carry much weight. The VA would probably order a test by a VA audiologist if there was any question. Disregarding the issue of service connection the VA considers hearing loss numbers (in dB) such as you have provided at 5 different frequencies ( 500, 1K, 2K, 3K, and 5K Hertz) AND the percentage of Word Recognition in determining hearing loss disability and compensation. The 500 Hz level is only used in determining a 0% rating. Both ears are considered. The information you presented from the 2010 test, if the numbers line up with the given frequency numbers, do not constitute what VA considers a hearing disability, even at 0%. He does have a high frequency loss in the one ear but it is above the range that VA used in making the rating. If you would like to check the data yourself you can refer to the regulation used by VA, CFR 38 §4.85-4.87. Or, I have a calculator located at: LINK I hope this helps. ADDED: One caveat that goes along with the above comment about the data not supporting a disability. To draw this conclusion the Word Recognition percentages would have to be considered. If WR in either ear were less than 94% it would constitute a current disability. However, the current data would not establish service connection. This must be done with other evidence. Hi Hutsky! Thanks for all your information. I did use your calculator, but unfortunately didn't know what it all meant after I entered everything. I'll show DH so he can help me. Tuesday he had his hearing test at Kaiser and the audiologist was familiar with writing letters to the VA, so that was helpful. She showed hi-frequency hearing loss, mild hi-pitch hearing loss (she stated this shows a noise contributing factor) and moderate level hearing loss. Now, what was interesting was the tests I posted in my initial title. We brought copies for the audiologist to review. First, my husband tells me that all of these tests over the last 10 years were given differently and depending on who had the contract with his work to perfrom them that year. Some tests were given in the room with others talking (where you can hear people while the test is being given) and some in a room by yourself. What's interesting is how different these tests are overall. Good news though my husband was going this his "Army Stuff" so I could put together a list of who, what, when, where and so on in the event of filing a claim and....he had his performance testing papers in his box. It listed many pieces of equipment he drove, testing scores, etc. BUT, low and behold there were hearing tests!!! Couldn't believe it, right here in our own hands. So, yesterday we ordered copies of his medical records (in and out patient treatment records, enlistment and exiting documents, field hospital documentation (he was in a mash unit for a couple days for an infection) and dental records where he was required to have his third molars extracted prior to leaving the military and they ended up suturing gauze inside his jaw - since my background is in dentistry I want to see which side this happened on since he had periodontal surgery many years ago back at tooth #31 and one of the wisdom teeth removed was #32, so could have been related to the gauze situation where they sliced open his jaw to remove the pressure and FOUND the gauze). I've also ready it's best to find out who the person was who performed his oral surgery and the skill level of that person. He enlised 9/79 and the first hearing test we have in our possession today is from 12/79 showing 15/15 both left and right. The 2nd is 2/80 showing 20/20. Both being normal. I would think this would be good since we know he didn't have a hearing issue prior to being enlisted. What we didn't ask the audiologist was the Word Recognition percentage. I've since faxed her for this information or asked if it will be in her letter to us as well, if not she'll email me. I'm curious now that you've mentioned it. It concerns me that he's only 50 years old and is having such issues with hearing. When he and I spoke about this yesterday, he said they never wore hearing protection during his enlistment time (79 to 85) either stateside of over seas. He stated on the range, the instructors wore hearing protection, but even in a field setting not even the instructors wore any. Even when they operated and serviced the generators hearing protection. I didn't realize how many times he's had "issues" with tinnitus. He never knows when it's going to happen or what causes it to try and prevent it. Just in case I'm getting his records together, it's hard to find dB(A) for many of the items he used during his time. All I seem to find now are newer pieces of equipment, generators (only find 5kw to 60kw, but not any 50 to 100kw's). Most of the vehicles, trucks, etc. he said they used were from the 60's and 70's. except for the 915 which was probably from the 80's. I saw a posting from 08' or 09' where person named Barbie posted a link for dB(A), but the links not valid. Any suggestions on where I can find this information? Thanks again for your replies. I'll keep plugging along and replying to everyone on this thread. PS: I'd like to confirm you mentioned the 500Hz level is used for the 0% rating. What level? Also, do they ever take Tinnitus into consideration for SC even at a 0% rating?
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Rawben		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 8:10 PM	Broncovet, Your comments are greatly appreciated. I'll reply to each below in BLUE. broncovet wrote: Rawben 1. No. Your audiologist needs to state (not 50/50), but rather "your hearing loss is at least as likely as not related to noise exposure (or accoustic trauma, as applicable) suffered during military service. This is called a "nexus". I replied to the Audiologist today with this information. She mentioned she's written letters for Veterans before which is good. 4. Yes, if they are available. The "presumption of soundness" should cover you if they are not. In other words, the military gives you a physical upon entrance into the military. If no hearing defects are noted on the entrance exam, then it is assumed that you had no hearing loss prior to entering the military. Not sure if you read my comment above, but we have two documents 1979 & 1980 showing normal hearing. We're waiting for Army medical records we requested this week. 5. I dont agree with his advice. If you get a decision you dont agree with, the procedure is to file a "Notice of disagreeement". Under some circumstances, such as the decision maker not having important evidence, you can file a Motion For Recoonsideration (MFR), but most Vets advocates recommend you ALSO file a NOD if your MFR does not resolve things for you WITHIN ONE YEAR of the RO decision. Would you ever file these two NOD and MFR together? I would assume not. 6. A 21-4138 is a "generic" form where the Veteran sends a statement in support of claim. There is a place for the Vets signature, where he certifies that the info contained on the form is true to the best of his knowledge. If your hubby operated loud equipment during miltary service, yes, he could fill in the 21-4138 and specify the equipment he operated. It may also be important to list the duration..if he operated a piece of equipment x hours per day, this is important. Noise exposure causing hearing loss is both in decibels, and in time. You will also need to file a "formal claim" if you have not already done so. A Veterans service Officer, such as DAV, VFW, normally available at your local VA mediclal center can assist you with the form and how to fill it out as well as where to send it to. When filing from 21-4138, would we attach all documentation of equipment he used (size, duration, location, dB(A) if we can obtain it - we have the dB(A) on the newer models of certain equipment, but are sure the dB(A) would be much worse on the older equipment we'd think) in addition adding documentation of the Ototoxic Chemicals (ear poison) showing many industrial solvents are ototoxic. Right now I only have two that we know of: Styrene* and Carbon Monoxide, the rest of the list we need to research: Trichloroethylene, Xylene, Butl Nitrate, Tolulene, Hexane, Carbon Disulfide, Mercury, Manganese, Tin and along with Lead and their derivaties. Also, Arsenic, Cyanide and Stoddard Solvent. =High-priority ototoxins 7. I also have trouble with wax buildup in the ears. He should point this out to his audiologist, VA or otherwise. Didn't seem to make a difference when we mentioned this to the audiologist, but will continue to mentioned as we go along. I'm truly confident this current test will be the most accurate of them all. We had his ears cleaned two weeks prior to this test, so should be accurate. 8. If you think your husband was exposed to solvents, that may have also caused issues, yes, he should inform his audiologist. I'm going to forward my research information regarding Ototoxic chemicals to the audiologist. She wasn't completely aware of this. From what I've read, "Excessive exposures to workplace ototoxins can on its own result in hearing loss. In combination with noise exposure, even marginal noise exposures, ototoxins can have a synergetic impact on hearin, producing more damage than a higher exposure to either hazard." If your husband has issues, other than hearing loss, such as with his teeth or gums related to miltary service by all means include these issues on his claim. Generally, if they cause no symptoms, however, even if they are "service connected" they will be at 0 percent. If my memory serves me correctly, several zero percent disabilty ratings can "combine" to 10 percent. An important part of your disability rating will be his "speech discrimination" which you did not list. What is this? Is this the same as Word Recognition? A couple things you can do to help your hubby: 1. Dont be stingy rephrasing things for him. When he asks to "repeat" or "huh", say what you just said in different words. Repeating the same thing often will not be heard a second time any better than it was the first time. 2. Dont try to talk to him in another room. The further the distance, the less he will be able to hear. 3. Dont try to talk to him with your mouth full, or your hands or other objects in front of your face. Excellent recommendations! Also, the audiologist gave us the name of a technology company that provides assistive listening devices. We really need to find something that will help with his cell phone (when he's working).
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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 8:12 PM	fanaticbooks wrote: Rawben, Welcome to VBN. Thanks for the WELCOME and the link. I'll be looking over it extensively over the next week. Briefly looking seems to have a lot of information. Thanks again!
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Rawben		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 8:26 PM	hutsky wrote: If there are other problems, such as the tinnitus or physical problems that have been diagnosed, which can be associated with service, file a claim. We definately have an issue with Tinnitus. If I asked my husband what he felt was worse, he would more than likely tell me that Tinnitus would be the #1 problem since he can't control it or prevent it (if he knew what caused it to happen in the first place). He's told me he has it in both ears and more often than not, the left ear is the worst. He only assumes the left is worst because it's on his driving side. When he gave me a list of equipment, vehicles, etc. he indicated some were rag top or open cab with no windows. Could this be related and why the left is worse - IDK? I recommend that you visit one of the Veteran Service Organization Representatives with your information before filing a claim. Our local county has a VA office. Their county employees who assist VA in our county. They told us to come by with all his paperwork and they would help him file his claim. Would this be the VSOR you're mentioning? Since we're in California, the local county office is called: CA Association of Veteran's Service Officers Possibly the same? Thanks again for all your information. You've been most helpful and it's greatly apprecaited!
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Norcal vet		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 263 Mar 31 11 8:49 PM	I live near Oakland, CA. I have County Vet Rep in Martinez, CA. I seen him 1-2 times a month. Something you should know. If you provide the VA with piles of hearing tests you run the risk of not receiving an hearing test as part of your C&P Exam. This happened to my buddy in Hawaii. No hearing exam, claim denied. He was forced to appeal the decision just to get a hearing test. Work closely with your Vet Rep, he understands the system very well. Good luck.
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Rawben		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Mar 31 11 9:09 PM	Truckmaster wrote: If your husbands job is giving him hearing tests every year, then most likely they are doing it as part of a hearing conservation requirement, indicating that he normally works around high noise levels. either way, the VA is going to look at his hearing change from when he went in, and when he got discharged, if for some reason there is no hearing test from his discharge, then you will have a real hard time proving any hearing loss was caused by his time in service 26 years ago. especially since his test in 2000 (15 years after he got out), shows a normal hearing pattern. I think you will have a hard time finding any Audiologist that will agree that some event, or exposure, from will not cause a hearing loss until 15 years after exposure. Best of luck to you & your husband, but I don't think its a battle you will ever win. Hey Truckmaster! My husbands work (State) requires all employees (there's between 3500 and 5500 of them depending on the time of year) to have a "work physical" which includes a hearing test. They perform routine physicals, drug & urine anaylsis and in-and-out hearing tests. From what I've been reading, it doesn't necessarily mean you may have had the hearing decrease when you discharged, but that your time in and what you did was the "start" of it? IDK. All I know is I don't think this is normal at his young age of 50 years old to have this problem and ringing in the ears, plus I've never seen anyone have such wax buildup to where they can't hear. It's hasen't been just once, so I guess something else I need to look into.
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Rawben	Hearing Loss - Starting the Process	#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Apr 1 11 1:04 AM	ritoab wrote: Ok, thought I'd respond to this post because I have been diagnose for 12 years at 0% hearing loss and I didn't know anything about nods or appeals process. Had I also known why My ears was ringing and why i was getting dizzy spells and stumbling from time to time was related to my hearing loss. As well why i was getting into fights with the woman and even the kids because i was misunderstanding some of the words they would use. Over the years I even notice I couldn't say words properly anymore etc... All these things are taken into consideration for hearing loss. Not just the actual sound test. I was 75db in right ear when i got out the miltary 12 years ago. Now I am 110db in my right ear and 65 in my left. I had no idea how bad my hearing was and how it affected my everyday life. It's all making so much since now to me and I file in October for increase for hearing loss but this time It's loaded with everything that is related to my hearing and not just the sound test. Ringing in ears, speech and word recognition, dizziness, staggering etc... That's the sort of evidence you need to provide if your husband is experiencing them. The point is, they all combine can make a difference whether he gets 0% or 30-100%. Again this is just my understanding of it and it may or may not be the case with your husband Interesting....this also makes some sense in our household. Often I've told him, you aren't listening. As we've discussed this more over the past couple days he said when someone speaks to him in low tones its easier to understand then in higher tones. His equilibrium is off after having ear wax removed and fine as far as I know otherwise. What worries me is if we don't file a claim (denied or otherwise) and then down the road it becomes worse then what? Can they change the rules or what they allow for benefit today? Or if we file a claim now, they deny it then down the road his numbers become worse and we refile will they have to go back and provide benefit(s) as of when we first applied? What I find interesting is that I have a brochure when he exited that shows what benefits VA's are entitled to and for what duration - ie, 90 days, 120 days, 2 years and lifetime or I believe it says no timelimit. In fact I had a VA representative at the VA 800 # tell me that any Veteran is entitled to healthcare period. Well I found out the next day after calling our local VA medical clinic to verify since a friend of mine's husband (he's 67 or older) recently lost his job and is on SSI and Unemployment. Told him to apply to the VA. He did and then received a letter saying he didn't qualify because he made too much money??? or something along those lines. I though how can someone make too much money if they don't have a job. Anyhow, the local medical clinic said they could apply for a hardship waiver and/or file a 1010ezR - so anyhow, what a Veteran may have been told in the past can change in the future. Hope this makes sense as to my reasoning....
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Rawben		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Apr 1 11 1:15 AM	Norcal vet wrote: I live near Oakland, CA. I have County Vet Rep in Martinez, CA. I seen him 1-2 times a month. Something you should know. If you provide the VA with piles of hearing tests you run the risk of not receiving an hearing test as part of your C&P Exam. This happened to my buddy in Hawaii. No hearing exam, claim denied. He was forced to appeal the decision just to get a hearing test. Work closely with your Vet Rep, he understands the system very well. Good luck. Hi Norcal Vet, Since you're in CA too, you may understand our situation since my husband's tests are from his work through the state. Not that it's his works fault, but what I'm meaning, it's whomever obtains the "contract" for this term they do the tests. Nothing is concrete or scientific. Some were in a private room within the audiologists office and some are in a "bus" where others are having their "physicals" performed and so on. I'm wondering if it's best NOT TO SEND any hearing tests period. Only the letter from the Kaiser audiologist (from what our local county VA rep indicated). The local VA representative told us to have his hearing tested BEFORE submitting a claim. We're to bring the test/letter with us to their local office. I wonder if you're County Vet Rep in Martinez is in the same association as ours through the CA Association of Veteran's Service Officers. One the CAVSO's webiste you can choose the state, then the county to find a representative. Here I was thinking the more information and research we have the better, but maybe that's not the case. Once we receive the Kaiser audiologist's letter we'll decide when and if we'll file a claim PLUS we'll wait until we receive his records from the archives before proceeding too. Two more thoughts: I've been reading where you file a primary claim and a secondary something. So, basically, hearing loss would be primary and tinnitus would be secondary. Is this correct? Secondly, if his dental issue happens to be in the same area as his botched oral surgery and my DH agrees to file a claim on this, would it be a seperate claim or added to the hearing loss tinnitus claim? We haven't looked at the claim form yet, so maybe my question will be answered there where it's limited to one incident per claim. Thanks again everyone for your guidance. It's much appreciated!!!
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Truckmaster		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1627 Apr 1 11 6:17 AM	Rawben wrote: From what I've been reading, it doesn't necessarily mean you may have had the hearing decrease when you discharged, but that your time in and what you did was the "start" of it? IDK. All I know is I don't think this is normal at his young age of 50 years old to have this problem and ringing in the ears, plus I've never seen anyone have such wax buildup to where they can't hear. It's hasen't been just once, so I guess something else I need to look into. you will need to prove that nothing else in his life since his exit 26 years ago, could have caused the hearing loss, tough to do, since he has the good hearing tests. During my Hearing C&P, the Audiologist, commented that My exit hearing test, just met the qualification to be considered hearing loss (26DB shift I think it was). By everything you posted, it looks more likely that his current hearing loss is related to his current job. Fight for every little bit of your life back. Don't let them win.
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