IU and Social Security Retirement in IU - Individual Unemployability Forum

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IU and Social Security Retirement

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wholesalecd		#21	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1717 Apr 2 10 10:38 PM	fixedincome1 wrote: dear one: you only have to pay taxes on any taxable income above the $25K threshhold. I've been told by my VSO and a tax preparer that I do not have to pay taxes for my IU or SSD. My total income from these two sources is way above 25k a year.
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lightningd		#22	[url]	[-]
Posts: 394 Apr 3 10 10:44 AM	The IU income is NOT taxable, and you will not have to report it. Yes, that alone puts you above 25k. The ONLY taxable income is the SSD. If your SSD ALONE is over the 25k, then you would have taxes due. If the spouse of the veteran works, then they are having taxes withheld. (If the couple is under I believe age 60, then they should qualify for the EITC without children.) You need only look at your SSD amount to determine if you would owe taxes. It ain't the years son, it's the miles! USAF 100% TDIU P&T (extraschedular) 50% combined rating by VA math
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wholesalecd		#23	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1717 Apr 3 10 11:34 AM	lightningd wrote: The IU income is NOT taxable, and you will not have to report it. Yes, that alone puts you above 25k. The ONLY taxable income is the SSD. If your SSD ALONE is over the 25k, then you would have taxes due. If the spouse of the veteran works, then they are having taxes withheld. (If the couple is under I believe age 60, then they should qualify for the EITC without children.) You need only look at your SSD amount to determine if you would owe taxes. I'm going to do what the professionals have told me on this.....If your IU isn't even reported it wouldn't make sense to consider this as income that would affect you SSD as far as it being taxed and being over the 25k limit. The IRS doesn't even acknowledge IU as "income" or we would have to report it. This is the way I see it and the way I've been professionally advised. The tax preparer even showed me this in writing. "Certain income does not affect Social Security" One of them was "Veteran Disability Compensation" I have a copy of it and will try to scan and post it. I've tried to scan and post stuff here before but never seem to have any luck with it though
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vetforus		#24	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2977 Apr 3 10 12:04 PM	Wholesalecd, You are right. The VA Compensation is never reported on the IRS Tax Forms. VetForUS
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wholesalecd		#25	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1717 Apr 3 10 1:30 PM	sorry lightening, I just read your post again and read it wrong the first time. My SSD by itself isn't over 25k so I don't have to worry about paying taxes. Thanks Edited 1 time by wholesalecd Apr 3 10 11:43 PM.
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lightningd		#26	[url]	[-]
Posts: 394 Apr 3 10 5:55 PM	NO problem wholesalecd...... I just know I've never had to report mine... It ain't the years son, it's the miles! USAF 100% TDIU P&T (extraschedular) 50% combined rating by VA math
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vetforus		#27	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2977 Apr 4 10 8:40 AM	Lightningd, I don't think I congratulated you on the IU. You did a lot of research and won. I always said nobody cares more for your rating than the Veteran. A job well done and I'm sure well deserved. I hope you stay around, you're a great asset for other Veterans. Kinda late, but welcome. VetForUS
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Coastie	Taxes	#28	[url]	[-]
Posts: 943 Apr 7 10 12:31 AM	lightningd wrote: The IU income is NOT taxable, and you will not have to report it. Yes, that alone puts you above 25k. The ONLY taxable income is the SSD. If your SSD ALONE is over the 25k, then you would have taxes due. If the spouse of the veteran works, then they are having taxes withheld. (If the couple is under I believe age 60, then they should qualify for the EITC without children.) You need only look at your SSD amount to determine if you would owe taxes. If you take the standard deduction, plus the standard exemption, it brings your tax base so low there are no taxes on most any Social Security you can draw down, regardless of how much it is. That would, of course, exclude any "lump sum" payments that would be made available in a single calendar year, which could bring the taxes into play. If there are two or more in the household with no other income (VA is always excluded) you'd think you were filling out the 1040 for a poverty family. (Without the VA payments, many of us would be way below the poverty level!) Some states exclude SS and SSDI from state income taxes as well, so in those states, you pay zip, nada, zero.
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Survivir	How Much Is Taxable?	#29	[url]	[-]
Posts: 10249 Apr 7 10 12:42 AM	Wholesalecd, Here is the IRS link that explains it along with examples...and how to deal with the Lump-Sum, too. http://www.irs.gov/publications/p915/ar02.html#en_US_publink100097889 Survivir
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namwife		#30	[url]	[-]
Posts: 366 Apr 7 10 6:33 PM	The good folk here are giving you good advice. The compensation from the VA is NONTAXABLE. Social security may become taxable if your other income exceeds a certain level. DH is on SS and I am on SSDI plus private LTD. He receives also VA compensation. We have dividend and interest income that makes a portion of SS taxable. However, our deductions eliminate that and we have paid no taxes for at least five years. Also, since your husbands conditions has not improved but has deteriorated, it would be good to file for an increase in percentage. If he gets 100% schedular permanent and total, then you become eligible for many benefits, including health care (a biggie).
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jjmcm		#31	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 Aug 13 10 5:47 AM	jjmcm wrote: Please forgive me if I don't use all the correct terminology. My husband is on IU. As I recall, the award letter said he was Permanent and Total 100% due to Unemployability. That was over 10 years ago. His current 'regular' rating is, I believe, 60%. His disability rating is due to service-connected skin cancer that requires numerous surgeries every year. He has loss of muscle and nerve tissue in his neck and shoulder due to surgical removal for the cancer. He has a particularly aggressive form of skin cancer that doesn't just stay in the layers of the skin, but invades whatever tissue it touches (so far, muscle and nerve have been affected). He also has Hoerner's Syndrome in one eye (this causes a droopy eyelid and impaired vision) due to a nerve that was nicked during a surgery. All of this was included in the original consideration under which he was given IU more than ten years ago. Over the past year, his condition has worsened due to a surgery in which nerve tissue had to be removed that controls shoulder movement. He can no longer raise one arm above shoulder level and is in constant pain. He has not applied for an increase in his 'regular' disability rating. We are unsure how that would affect his IU, and in these economic times, are afraid to upset any apple carts. Is that worth doing? Or is it best to leave well enough alone? The other question we have has to do with his age and Social Security retirement. I've read enough here that I think I understand that because he is now of retirement age (he wasn't when he was awarded IU, but is now) he won't lose his IU due to his increasing age. I also understand that he could be on IU and collect SSDI, but we never knew that, and he has never tried to apply for SSDI. I am sure it is probably too late for that. But what happens with his regular Social Security retirement benefits? Can he claim them, now that he is of retirement age (he is 65), and keep his IU? Would Social Security retirement be seen as 'income'? Neither of us really understand how this works, and don't want to jeopardize anything in any way. There is no way he can possibly work, and it's not like we want to claim something he isn't entitled to, but I would just like to see him be able to claim whatever he is entitled to. I hope that makes sense. If he were to claim his Social Security retirement benefits, would that put his qualification for IU in jeopardy? I have searched all over the web, and can't find a definitive answer, so I'm hoping someone here may know. We are just trying to figure out what we should expect in the future, and what can and cannot be done. We are also concerned about what would happen to me should, God forbid, I lose him. We've tried to find information about that, but can't find much that explains it very well. I think, from what I've managed to find, that some percentage of his disability benefit would continue for me, but I am unsure how much that would be. I feel morbid to even be thinking about this, but we feel it's important to at least know what to expect in all these things. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. If no one here knows the answers to our questions, where would you suggest we look? Thank you in advance. I'm quoting my initial post to bump this thread up again in the hope of getting an answer to my original question. SSDI isn't applicable here. He was never told he could apply for that, and it is past the deadline for applying for that. My question has to do with concurrent receipt of IU and regular Social Security retirement benefits. I understand that SSDI would convert to regular Social Security retirement at age 66, had he applied for it. But we didn't know, and he didn't. He will turn 66 this fall, which is considered "full retirement age" by the Social Security Administration. He will be eligible for retirement benefits at that time according to the information Social Security sends us in the mail each year, based on all the years when he was able to work, and did, before he became unable to work because of his service-connected disability. All the info about that is in the quoted post above. I would add to that info that my daughter and I received Chapter 35 benefits, and I have ChampVA coverage, so I am sure his IU is P&T. If he applies for Social Security retirement, would that affect his IU in any way? The Social Security retirement pay is much less than the IU, so we wouldn't want to jeopardize his IU in any way. But the extra money from SS retirement would sure help us out of a financial bind, if it wouldn't cause any problems with his IU. (Seems like just about everyone is hurting financially these days. ) I know that if it were military retirement that he could do it now. But this isn't military retirement. He worked mostly for the state when he worked, but that was many years ago. However, he paid into Social Security all those years, and it seems only fair that he should be able to collect his retirement benefits. But unless someone can tell us for sure that it's possible to do without putting his IU in jeopardy, then he won't even try. Has anyone done this? Is there anyone here who was on IU, reached retirement age, and successfully applied for retirement benefits for Social Security without losing their IU? If I'm not making sense, please let me know and I'll answer any questions I can. We even tried to ask someone at the VA 800#, but they didn't even know for sure. Oh, and another thing -- he didn't get a Form 21-4140 last year, which was why we'd called the VA -- because we were worried about it. They told him he doesn't have to send one in any more, so not to worry about it. Was that because of his age? or because he's been on IU for over 10 years now? or what? Does anyone know? We weren't sure whether to trust what we were told or not, but that's what they said. Thanks in advance to anyone who can answer my questions!
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jjmcm		#32	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 Aug 13 10 6:06 AM	Midniteoyl wrote: If he still has enough credits to recieve SS retierment, then yes - he can apply for, and recieve, BOTH SS and IU... there is no worries in that regard. VA disablity, whether schedular or IU, has no effect on any SS payment other than SSI..... Go ahead and have him apply. The SS people will then determine if he is eligible (enough credits).... Hi Midniteoyl! I'm sorry I missed your reply to my original post. I just now found this as I tried to re-read the thread. Thanks so much for addressing my question. What is SSI? Is that Supplemental Security Income? No, he wouldn't be applying for that. I'm just talking about regular ol' Social Security retirement like my mom and dad lived on when they retired. He has enough credits, according to the statement they send out every year, and it would sure help us out a lot if he could get that, too. So, are you sure? We're kinda scared about the whole thing. If he lost his IU, we'd be sunk, since I'm now unemployed and am having a heck of a time trying to find a job right now. Scary times.
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wgwollet		#33	[url]	[-]
Posts: 107 Aug 13 10 6:56 AM	I am at the 60% VA level of disability, and have applied for IU. I also am on SS disibilty. You can get both, you earned it. Whenever you are rated at 100% VA OR SS disabaled you can apply for both. BUT, both disabilities MUST be for the same reason (service connected)..........a person can be on SS or IU or both. SS might not like you service disibilty and say you can still work.......both are separate organizations and must be dealt with separate......I am told a disibilty at either place could help the other....for example I had SS send me a copy of my disability and its the same as my service connection,,,,,,,so that should help in getting IU. Taxes are paid on SS (but it depends on total income to see if you must pay) Warren Buffet one of the riches men in the world and is on SS and Medicare, I am sure he must pay taxes on his SS. Here is where it gets ugly..........since he is 65, he could have been on SS since age 62......age 66 is max amount.......you could work even longer to 72, before you collect SS, and each year it pays more.......so at 65 he is one year from max (max is different for everybody, the amounts is based on income over the years) for example my Mom only got $600 month at age 62 but Dad got $1500......he worked longer and made more......The VA system is different it pays by percent disiabilty but at 100% pays quit well with no taxes.......... his age 65 SS is close to the disisbilty figure (SS disability pays at the age 66 rate and he is only one year out, so very little gain)
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namwife		#34	[url]	[-]
Posts: 366 Aug 15 10 8:35 AM	By all means, get his social security benefits! You can have both. As the other posters said, the VA amount is non-taxable and social security is only taxable depending on how much other TAXABLE income you have. DH receives both and we pay no taxes. As an aside, have you checked with your state benefits? Your property tax? Our county waives property tax for 100% disabled. Some states (like Utah) reduce property tax based on the percentage disability awarded so that all DAV vets with a 10% or greater rating receive a scaled discount. After 10 years on IU P&T and at age 65, I would not worry about losing the VA benefit. Also, re: applying for an increase in rating percentage, I would NOT do it. I cannot see any benefit at all to you. You have the maximum benefit already. Good luck to you.
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witchdoctor		#35	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11385 Aug 15 10 11:28 AM	If his conditions have worsened and they can be proven as service connected or secondary to an existing service connected condition, file a claim. There are additional compensation levels above 100% called Special Monthly Compensation (SMC). These are designed to assist vets with additional expenses when they can no longer care for themselves without assistance or additional special care, for loss of use of extremities, etc. Go here for more info and links: Scroll down to service connected disabiliies.... http://www.vba.va.gov/VBA/benefits/factsheets/index.asp Member-at-large: Disturbed Veterans of America.
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jjmcm		#36	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 Aug 18 10 3:36 AM	wgwollet wrote: I am at the 60% VA level of disability, and have applied for IU. I also am on SS disibilty. You can get both, you earned it. Whenever you are rated at 100% VA OR SS disabaled you can apply for both. BUT, both disabilities MUST be for the same reason (service connected)..........a person can be on SS or IU or both. SS might not like you service disibilty and say you can still work.......both are separate organizations and must be dealt with separate......I am told a disibilty at either place could help the other....for example I had SS send me a copy of my disability and its the same as my service connection,,,,,,,so that should help in getting IU. Taxes are paid on SS (but it depends on total income to see if you must pay) Warren Buffet one of the riches men in the world and is on SS and Medicare, I am sure he must pay taxes on his SS. Here is where it gets ugly..........since he is 65, he could have been on SS since age 62......age 66 is max amount.......you could work even longer to 72, before you collect SS, and each year it pays more.......so at 65 he is one year from max (max is different for everybody, the amounts is based on income over the years) for example my Mom only got $600 month at age 62 but Dad got $1500......he worked longer and made more......The VA system is different it pays by percent disiabilty but at 100% pays quit well with no taxes.......... his age 65 SS is close to the disisbilty figure (SS disability pays at the age 66 rate and he is only one year out, so very little gain) wgwollet: First of all, good luck with your application for IU! I wish he’d know he could have applied for SSDI. He would have done so. But we didn’t know that, unfortunately, and now he can no longer apply for that. namwife wrote: By all means, get his social security benefits! You can have both. As the other posters said, the VA amount is non-taxable and social security is only taxable depending on how much other TAXABLE income you have. DH receives both and we pay no taxes. As an aside, have you checked with your state benefits? Your property tax? Our county waives property tax for 100% disabled. Some states (like Utah) reduce property tax based on the percentage disability awarded so that all DAV vets with a 10% or greater rating receive a scaled discount. After 10 years on IU P&T and at age 65, I would not worry about losing the VA benefit. Also, re: applying for an increase in rating percentage, I would NOT do it. I cannot see any benefit at all to you. You have the maximum benefit already. Good luck to you. namwife: Thanks so much for your reply. Is your husband receiving IU disability from the VA concurrent with SS retirement? That’s the combination I need to know about. You make an excellent point about state VA benefits. All vets should be aware of these! The state of California waives property taxes for 100% disabled vets, and we have taken advantage of that. It has helped us tremendously. That’s just another reason why we wouldn’t want to do anything to jeopardize him receiving IU. We’d simply be sunk if he lost it for any reason. He can’t work, and I’m having trouble finding work. (I used the Chapter 35 benefits to go back to school – for as long as they lasted. I had to take out loans to finish up. And now the economy stinks and I can’t find a job. I thought going back to school would be a GOOD thing, but heck, I can’t even get hired to run a cash register at Target or Walmart, because now I’m considered OVER-educated for that. And the competition for anything requiring a degree is fierce. But enough on that – that’s a whole different can of worms.) As for applying for an increase in his schedualr rating, I think your advice is sound. We are going to hold that in reserve. If, for any reason, he should need to, he could most likely get a schedular increase because his disabilities have definitely worsened. He has lost partial use of one arm, and he also now has service-connected hearing loss, both of which are documented. But it’s probably best to let sleeping dogs lie, as they say. witchdoctor wrote: If his conditions have worsened and they can be proven as service connected or secondary to an existing service connected condition, file a claim. There are additional compensation levels above 100% called Special Monthly Compensation (SMC). These are designed to assist vets with additional expenses when they can no longer care for themselves without assistance or additional special care, for loss of use of extremities, etc. Go here for more info and links: Scroll down to service connected disabiliies.... http://www.vba.va.gov/VBA/benefits/factsheets/index.asp witchdoctor: Thanks for your advice. As I said above, it’s probably best to hold that in reserve. He is not in need of that sort of assistance at this time, and hopefully, never will be. I am happy to know it is there for those truly in need of it, though. If only more vets knew of such things. Edited 1 time by jjmcm Aug 18 10 3:38 AM.
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jjmcm		#37	[url]	[-]
Posts: 20 Aug 18 10 3:44 AM	I should probably also note that we are going to check with the DAV and with Social Security, and see what they tell us. As I mentioned already, a recent phone call to the VA’s 800# was not helpful. The person answering the phone didn’t know, so she went to get her supervisor. All he would say is “He SHOULD be able to do that.” But he didn’t know for sure. No one seems to know the definitive answer to this question. IF and when we get an answer, I’ll post it back here so that anyone clicking on this thread might be able to get an answer here. In the meantime, if there is anyone here who has had personal experience from our particular standpoint – already receiving 100% IU, and then, applying for and receiving SS retirement (not SSDI) concurrently – please post and let us know what happened for you! For those of you who served, we thank you for your service.
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namwife		#38	[url]	[-]
Posts: 366 Aug 18 10 6:06 AM	oops. deleted
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wgwollet		#39	[url]	[-]
Posts: 107 Aug 18 10 10:01 AM	Listen........he can get SS at any age from 62 to 105...........it has nothing to do with the VA IU money your getting...........apply for SS NOW or wait whenever........there are many thoeies on what age to get SS, but in your case you need the money now so apply.........it will not effect IU one bit because he earned SS based on his credits paid into the system.......... The only sad thing is IF his disability is the same for IU and SS he could have gotten SS disabilty regradless of age( but its water over the dam now)......last if State employee apply for disibility from the state too
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MoNamVet		#40	[url]	[-]
Posts: 468 Aug 20 10 12:15 AM	I don't have the answer for you. But I think I have the right question. The question is whether Social Security income is considered "earned income". Here's what Title 38 says: "For purposes of this section, marginal employment generally shall be deemed to exist when a veteran's earned annual income does not exceed the amount established by the U.S. Department of Commerce..." In other words, to be eligible for IU you must qualify based on your disability, which you have done, but you must also qualify based on income. That's the question you are asking. It is definitely true that you are eligible for SS benefits. But if they happen to be considered "earned income" and IF the exceed the threshhold established by the Commerce Department, then that would disqualify you from your IU. Notice though that I said "IF". That's because I don't know if the VA considers SS benefits "earned income". My opinion is that they should not. But you're not asking my opinion, you're asking for facts...and I am unable to find a factual answer for you. Another question in this same vein is whether rental income would be considered "earned income" for the purposes of IU as set forth by Title 38. The IRS does not consider rental income as "earned income". Rather it is unearned income. But I have not been able to find anywhere where the VA specifies how their definition is applied. One thing I have found interesting is that the VA, for the purposes of establish a Pension for those of limited income, over 65, looks at ALL income. So again, I think you are asking the right question. The question you are trying to determine is whether for the purposes of IU as established by Title 38, is Social Security considered "earned income"? Here's a link to the pertinent section in Title 38: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov....1.5.1.97.11&idno=38
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