Hearing loss claim leave many vets service connected but 0% compensated. in VA Disability Claims (General) Forum

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Hearing loss claim leave many vets service connected but 0% compensated.

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jbwoodco		#41	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 27 11 1:38 PM	Continued... so my question is just this; If there is hearing loss above 2000hertz, why is this not address when its agreed that HL above 55db in 4 or more thresholds might not accurately reflect the true extend of the disability and (as the commenter pointed out) extremely handicapping in the work environment. I know this is a long shot, but the QuickSIN test would address this condition and offer some compensation relief. I'm going to research why only the frequencies 1000 - 4000 hertz were chosen. Anyone have input on this? Edited 1 time by jbwoodco Dec 27 11 1:41 PM.
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hutsky		#42	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2787 Dec 27 11 3:19 PM	jbwoodco wrote: Yes, I have seen this program. While it clean and quick, it does not offer any compensation outside the set parameters. This is something a good programmer could tweak should the housekeeping portion be pliable. But the code is locked. However it is an excellent tool to help show where disabled vets fit inside the compensation realm. The referenced hearing loss calculator was not intended to do more than apply the established VA standards to the audiology results. The very nature of the programming, which is nothing more than an an amalgamation of boolean tests and table searches, would not lend itself to anything more than a set of defined conditions. It can be used to apply "what if" scenarios within those confines but that is about it. I think that I understand your differences with the rating standards--basically that the VA did not go far enough in the last major revision to deal with difficulties introduced in different environments. No doubt there are measures other than the two recognized by CFR 38, 4.86 but it is my opinion that such change will only come about through support from the audiology and medical community. Much of the material resulting in the changes in the last revision of the regulation seems to have come from the VA "Report on Hearing Loss Study", dated Jan 6, 1986.
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joehemi		#43	[url]	[-]
Posts: 108 Dec 27 11 3:33 PM	Hi, The Old Medic wrote: They do NOT raise ANYONE'S baseline at all. Teloing stupid lies like that does not help your credibility. The single most common disability that the VA pays compensation for is hearing loss. DID YOU KNOW THAT? THAT MORE VETERANS RECEIVE DISABILITY COMPENSATION FOR HEARING LOSS, THAN FOR ANY OTHER CAUSE? . I'm shocked that a Mod would post this type of reply. It was a direct personal attack on the OP. Members have been banned for less. P.S.N.S. Is Puget Sound Naval Shipyard in Bremerton, WA. Been there, done that. Hearing loss is the #1 SCed disability? Probably. Hearing loss is the #1compensated disability? No. If you can hear thunder you will get a 0% rating. Tinnitus is probably the #1 compensated disability in the % of Vets that receive a check for a rating. Knees are probably #2 on the list. Me? 0% hearing, 10% for tinnitus. Joe Hemi
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jbwoodco		#44	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 27 11 3:33 PM	Yes, Hutsky; I have to agree that the calculator is an excellent tool. Glad you brought this up. Jim
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BROVET		#45	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3517 Dec 27 11 4:46 PM	Joe, I went back to read the post that Old Medic was responding to and what was said by the poster was inaccurate. The VA does not raise everyone's base line each year. Old Medic was correct. Is your statement, "Tinnitus is probably the #1 compensated disability in the % of Vets that receive a check for a rating. Knees are probably #2 on the list." an opinion or based upon fact. You want to beat up on Old Medic using opinion. How about responding with facts. JMHO A Co. 2nd/2nd 1st Infantry 11/66-11/67
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jbwoodco	Focus	#46	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 27 11 5:21 PM	Hello again; Three pages ago I started this thread by saying "Its time to review the VA's testing procedures" I would like to regain focus on this topic. To sum things up; The CFR's are very specific with directing how to test and award service connected hearing loss claims. I have concluded that the frequencies 1000, 2000, 3000, and 4000 hertz, were used because this represents the human voice range (I could be wrong on this part). And that this is the reason why and only why the VA as well as the AMA and other medical fields choose to address this range of frequencies. Even though they realize there are some Vets who's disability is more pronounced and reside at or above 4000 Hertz, this is not addressed. In light of the facts, I'm actively perusing discussions with Senator Patty Murray's staff, have sent correspondence to Mr Sinseki, Dept of Veterans Affairs, with test data from the University of Washington's Audiology Department that shows a moderate to sever hearing difficulty in noise above 2000 hertz. Even though I'm service connected but at zero compensation. My mission is to address this gray area that was recognized by the VA's conclusion in the 1987 Federal Register, but not extended as compensatable. I would also challenge why the QuickSIN (sound in noise) is not presently used as a tool to better diagnose those SC vets who's hearing in noise difficulties and award them where due. Thanks for all the great input. Please, if we could just stay focused. Captain Jim
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USNDW		#47	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4378 Dec 28 11 12:56 AM	My hearing is pretty consistent. Loud ringing all the time, 24 hours a day. Can't hear squat. But I don't need hearing aids?
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jbwoodco		#48	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 28 11 2:03 AM	Loud ringing is more likely than not, Tinnitus. Hearing aids will have no effect on this problem. It is however, a hearing disability that carries a 10% maximum compensation. Have you seen and talked to the VA's audiologist about this?
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jbwoodco	Cruiser	#49	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 28 11 2:38 PM	Hello Cruiser, I did a copy and past on this reply from you. It has a lot of good information. Puretone and Maryland testing address a specific region of hearing loss that has been deemed compensable. There remains a gray region (6000 hertz and above) that has been recognized but deemed not compensable. The QuickSIN test could provide a formatted number that addresses this region the other tests do not. If all three tests were utilized, their combined data would be a great asset to diagnose and fairly compensate those vets who currently fit just outside the present compensation rating. I'm not asking to throw out the present testing but to include an alternate to provide a "quality of life" fairness. Above all, I don't want to sound like a broken record here. Any positive feedback is greatly appreciated. Capt. Jim The Schedule for Rating Disabilities has been undergoing a top to bottom review and re-write since 1994, on a section by section basis. The evaluation criteria for hearing loss was thoroughly reviewed and re-written in 1999 at which time the very issue that you bring up was discussed in the Federal Register. VBA acknowledged that in some cases the Maryland CNC did not adequately reflect the degree of real world disability in a hearing loss case; therefore, the Rating Schedule was amended to include the portion pertaining to usual patterns of hearing loss. Once hearing loss reaches a specified degree of severity VA personnel are required to ignore the speech discrimination findings under the Maryland test and rate solely on the puretone hearing loss numbers. In many cases this provides for a higher evaluation than would be warranted when using the Maryland CNC results. Here is how this was stated in the Federal Register in 1999. This provision was meant to compensate for a pattern of hearing impairment that is an extreme handicap in the presence of any environmental noise. VHA found that when this pattern of impairment is present, a speech discrimination test conducted in a quiet room with amplification of the sounds does not always reflect the extent of impairment experienced in the ordinary environment. This provision allows evaluation of hearing impairment in these individuals on puretone average only, if that results in a higher evaluation. http://www.federalregister.gov/articles/1999/05/11/99-11768/schedule-for-rating-disabilities-diseases-of-the-ear-and-other-sense-organs In the event that both of these means of evaluation of hearing loss are inadequate to compensate for the "real world" effects of loss of hearing, VA is required to consider assigning an extra-schedular evaluation. It would be up to your doctor or audiologist to adequately explain how and why your actual hearing loss is worse than the numbers would indicate otherwise. Such extra-schedular evaluations are relatively rare at VA; however, the Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims is not shy about taking such action if it feels that any action by VBA is arbitrary or capricious. To date I'm not aware of the Court expressing any concerns about the Maryland CNC's role in evaluating hearing loss. In fact, I have seen several cases where the Court declared that audiology exams could not be used for evaluation purposes solely because the Maryland test was not used; however, the Court could certainly start ordering VA to grant extra-schedular evaluations if it deemed that appropriate. That would likely bring about a change. At the end of the day Congress has long ago turned the authority to determine how disabilities are evaluated over to the Secretary of Veterans Affairs and, to my knowledge, has never stepped in and instructed the Secretary to do something different than what he was doing in this regard. I'm not aware of any current plans to re-write the hearing loss criteria currently spelled out in 38 CFR Part 4, but that doesn't mean that changes can't or won't be made; however, given the 1999 discussion and change regarding speech recognition I doubt that this is on the radar at present. Cruiser
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nmfxstc		#50	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25225 Dec 28 11 3:05 PM	jbwoodco: I applaud and commend your ambition, motivation ,and action on this issue. You are pursuing things correctly in addressing the congressional folks who, in theory at least, have the authority and avenue to bring attention to the issue and direct appropriate change. That is exactly how we approached concurrent receipt!) However, this tread is turning into a "blog", don't you agree? I also thank yu for the comments about bringing the thread back on topic. Let's see where this goes, but please limit the posts to your topic and drop the other stuff, otherwise, when a thread runs longer than 20 posts or so, it becomes useless and turns to personal chats and personal "attacks". Fillean meal ar an meallaire.
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Bob6870		#51	[url]	[-]
Posts: 62 Dec 28 11 3:50 PM	When I retired from the AF in 1985 I two of the service-connected ratings I had were hearing loss related: Tinnitus 10% and Hearing Loss 0%. Both were rated as service-connected. I got my first set of hearing aids from the VA in late 1985 and continued to visit the VA for adjustments to the hearing aids, replacements for worn-out/broken hearing aids, and new hearing aids when the old ones no longer provided enough amplification to understand speech. Over the years my hearing continued to deteriorate and I got to the point where hearing aids only caused increased distortion in what I was hearing. All through this period of about 15 years I never requested a re-evaluation, mainly because I didn't know I could. I thought the VA would just automatically act on the information in my records being updated. In 2002, I was told by a representative of a VSO that I needed to act if I wanted my ratings changed. By that time I was essentially deaf even though I had a modicum of residual hearing (mostly at and below 500 Hz). The records my audiologist had on me even referred to me as being deaf. At that time I was told that I qualified for cochlear implants. I submitted the paper work to request a re-evaluation and all of my conditions were re-evaluated. Most stayed at the same level as when I left the service, but the rating for hearing loss was increased to 100%. The VA eventually implanted both of my ears with cochlear implants. jbwoodco, you are right about why the evaluation concentrates on the 1000 to 4000 Hz areas. I often asked about this when I was losing my hearing and have even asked about it since receiving my cochlear implants to help me understand what I should expect to hear. There is an area that is referred to as the "speech banana" that covers the range of approx 1000 to 8000 Hz. A very large number of speech sounds fall in the 1000-4000 Hz range with only a very few sounds reaching into the 8000 Hz area. If you google "speech banana" you'll get a better idea of the range of human speech. Thanks for taking the big step to be active about helping those with hearing loss get the recognition of that loss and proper compensation for it. Bob I also struggled with tinnitus throughout the years. Some days it really did effect what I could understand. Other days it was just background noise. On days when my hearing aids worked well for me, there was very little tinnitus until I took them off at night. Now that I have cochlear implants I rarely have tinnitus while wearing them, but when I take them off at night or for any reason during the day the roaring, whistling and ringing all come back. Hearing aids can help tame tinnitus and there are even some hearing aids that are made specifically to mask tinnitus. Cochlear implants usually make tinnitus go away while one is using them, but there are times, such as when one is sick or afflicted with allergies that tinnitus can still be a problem.
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jbwoodco	Thanks BOB	#52	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Dec 28 11 6:31 PM	I Googled the speech banana. It was exactly what I needed to better understand why the VA tests only these frequencies. Perfect. Thanks. Edited 1 time by jbwoodco Dec 29 11 2:31 PM.
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Lugnut		#53	[url]	[-]
Posts: 47 Jan 27 12 6:45 PM	jbwoodco wrote: It's time to review the VA's testing procedures. My road has been long, and like many of you not an easy one. I suffer from acoustical trauma. Have been fitted by the VA for hearing aids, awarded a Service Connected disability but at zero percent, I did get 10% for tinnitus. Over and over again the conversations are the same, SC award but zero compensation. So I had a test done at the University of Washington. They confirmed what 3 other hearing tests found but more importantly, what they lacked. NOW LISTEN UP!, what they lack (and for good reason because it would valid thousands of claims) is called the QuickSIN test. It is presented much like the Maryland CNC word association test. However unlike the Maryland CNC test given in a soundproof room using headphones, using words presented at increasing volume level (to acheive the best score/not in favor of the vet), The QuickSIN test applies increasing background noise while the subject repeats a sentence as spoken in a conversation. What this test offers is a REAL WORLD test. It validates the frustration associated with using hearing aids in noisy environments, a grandchild's playful scream, and everything else in this noisy world outside the soundproof testing booth. Here is an excerpt of their findings."Test results revealed a bilateral moderately-severe sensory neural hearing loss, indicative of noise exposure above 2000hz. QuickSIN testing revealed a moderate impairment in noise bilaterally and indicates that even with good directional microphones and noise reduction technology, difficulty in background noise is likely.” I have sent this information to Senator Patty Murray and have asked for help in addressing why the VA will not accept the QuickSIN testing as a tool to help diagnose, identify, and award those SC vets who suffer a quality of life hearing disability. Her staff responded that this information will be reviewed in committee. Stay tuned, I hope to have a response soon. Please feel free to comment. Jim Wood It would appear that the va has a variety of tests available. track 21 and 22 may be of interest on this topic. There are others listed that may be of interest also. http://www.etsu.edu/crhs/aslp/audiology/resources/Dod1.aspx
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jbwoodco	hearing loss claim update	#54	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Feb 13 12 1:46 PM	I just received a reply from the Department of Veterans Affairs - Mr. Shinseki's staff. To summarize: The VA evaluates hearing impairment according to established criteria contained in Schedule for Rating Disabilities. The Schedule does not provide for Speech-in-noise testing such as QuickSIN (sound in noise). However, the VA is revising the rating schedule. On October 11 and 12 of 2011 VA hosted a forum of medical experts to address issues related to hearing impairment including recently developed evaluation tools such as speech-in-noise testing. When drafting revisions to the rating schedule, VA will consider the types of tests available nationwide, their degree of standardization, and their training requirements. The goal is to use tests that would most fairly and accurately document the Veteran's degree of hearing impairment, and assist VA rating personnel in establishing service connection.....hope you find this information helpful. Sincerely. My response will be not to challenge this letter of response, but ask for clarification on the status of speech-in-noise testing as a tool, if in fact it is adopted then how long it would take for its implantation. Also, if they have concluded that Quicksin addresses an area of hearing disability not evaluated using current testing procedures, then to what level could be derived for those Vets suffering a "quality of life" hearing impairment having been previously rated "service connected". Thanks you guys for allowing me to help bring this information to the table. All I ask is to keep your replies focused and short on what we can do to become better educated about the QuickSin or similar testing procedure. Jim Wood
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Cheyenne		#55	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2976 Feb 13 12 3:23 PM	Would the minutes of that October 2011 forum be available to the general public? Appreciate your tenacity on this subject. I hope the speech-in-noise testing will soon be implemented.
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jbwoodco	My response to VA via Senator Patty Murray and Staff.	#56	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Feb 13 12 4:58 PM	Cheyenne wrote: Would the minutes of that October 2011 forum be available to the general public? Appreciate your tenacity on this subject. I hope the speech-in-noise testing will soon be implemented. Hello Sam and Senator Patty Murray; I received a letter of response, (attached) from Under Secretary of Veterans Affairs for Benefits, Allison A. Hickey. In the third paragraph, there was mention of a forum of medical experts conducted October 11 & 12, 2011. Where they addressed issues relating to hearing impairment including recently developed evaluation tools such as speech-in-noise testing. Would you send to me a copy of those minutes please? Mrs. Hickey’s reply did not include any direction arrived from those expert testimonies and especially the comment “recently developed evaluations tools such as speech-in-noise testing” leaves me wondering; 1. What was the outcome of the meeting? 2. Did the medical experts conclude that sound-in-noise testing should be included as part of the VA’s testing procedure? If yes, then how long will it take for it to be adopted (after a nationwide, training, testing, and rating award level decision). If no, then why? The outcome will have a great impact on my “service connected but zero compensation” claim. As you are aware from previous correspondence, the University of Washington’s audiology department’s Test results revealed a bilateral moderately-severe sensory neural hearing loss, indicative of noise exposure above 2000hz. QuickSIN testing revealed a moderate impairment in noise bilaterally and indicates that even with good directional microphones and noise reduction technology, difficulty in background noise is likely. Thank you for your time and I wait a response.
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hutsky		#57	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2787 Feb 13 12 5:30 PM	jbwoodco, Please keep us informed about your effort. The reaction will be interesting. I think it would be appropriate to pose the same question to Ms. Hickey that you ask of the Senator.
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jbwoodco		#58	[url]	[-]
Posts: 44 Feb 13 12 6:28 PM	Hello Hutsky; I would like to respond to Ms. Hickey. Would you have a contact email? Thanks Jim
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ohYew812		#59	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1055 Feb 13 12 7:43 PM	BROVET wrote: Joe, I went back to read the post that Old Medic was responding to and what was said by the poster was inaccurate. The VA does not raise everyone's base line each year. Old Medic was correct. Is your statement, "Tinnitus is probably the #1 compensated disability in the % of Vets that receive a check for a rating. Knees are probably #2 on the list." an opinion or based upon fact. You want to beat up on Old Medic using opinion. How about responding with facts. JMHO I wasn't referring to the VA raising the baseline. I was referring to PSNS raising everyone's baseline. And YES. They do it every year.
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hutsky		#60	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2787 Feb 13 12 11:11 PM	jbwoodco wrote: Hello Hutsky; I would like to respond to Ms. Hickey. Would you have a contact email? Thanks Jim I couldn't locate an email address although there is no doubt one. However, this address should work for the normal mail. Ms. Allison A. Hickey Under Secretary for Benefits Veterans Benefit Administration 810 Vermont Ave, N.W. Washington, DC 20420 I do not intend to discourage you in your pursuit but will say that I have corresponded both by e-mail and normal mail with VA organizations at this same level, although not the same Office, which came to naught. If you are interested in information on the Under Secretary you might check this site. http://www.vba.va.gov/VBA/newsletter/issue/Jul_11.pdf Edited 1 time by hutsky Feb 14 12 12:29 PM.
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Hearing loss claim leave many vets service connected but 0% compensated.

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