Thailand Veterans Presumptive in Agent Orange, Heart Disease, Prostate and Parkinson's Forum

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Thailand Veterans Presumptive

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BennyRCox	Thailand Veterans Presumptive		Lead	[-]
Posts: 494 Jan 10 11 11:46 AM	I received this information from the Veterans Affairs office this morning. If you served in Thailand during the Vietnam era then you can claim Presumptive for agent orange Go to this link. www.public health va.gov/exposure/agent orange/thailand I was told this was received on the 1-5-2011 so it's new. Also learned we should use the new forms two that I was briefed on was use VA form 21-526ez and also for an increase use va form 21-4138. I 've made some calls and made some Thailand Vet happy this morning. Now I want to help some more. God Bless
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CrashNash		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6789 Jan 10 11 12:07 PM	You sure about this BennyRCox. I tried the link you posted and got an error. CrashNash
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rwats2001	Crash Nash	#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 206 Jan 10 11 12:18 PM	Try this link...... http://www.publichealth.va.gov/exposures/agentorange/thailand.asp Your Signature ...
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Daman		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3980 Jan 10 11 12:32 PM	IF this is what you are talking about, IT IS NOT PRESUMPTIVE but at least they will recognize the use outside Viet Nam. The following Veterans may have been exposed to herbicides: ■U.S. Air Force Veterans who served on Royal Thai Air Force (RTAF) bases at U-Tapao, Ubon, Nakhon Phanom, Udorn, Takhli, Korat, and Don Muang, near the air base perimeter anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975. ■U.S. Army Veterans who provided perimeter security on RTAF bases in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975. ■U.S. Army Veterans who were stationed on some small Army installations in Thailand anytime between February 28, 1961 and May 7, 1975. However, the Army Veteran must have been a member of a military police (MP) unit or was assigned an MP military occupational specialty whose duty placed him/her at or near the base perimeter. To receive benefits for diseases associated with herbicide exposure, these Veterans must show on a factual basis that they were exposed to herbicides during their service as shown by evidence of daily work duties, performance evaluation reports, or other credible evidence. This is the exact "copy/paste" from the VA public health web site.
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Ftrooppilot		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 872 Jan 10 11 1:12 PM	Daman wrote: IF this is what you are talking about, IT IS NOT PRESUMPTIVE but at least they will recognize the use outside Viet Nam. "A recently declassified Department of Defense (DoD) Report written in 1973 titled, “Project CHECO Southeast Asia Report: Base Defense in Thailand 1968-1972,” contains evidence that there was a significant use of herbicides on the fenced-in perimeters of military bases in Thailand to remove foliage that provided cover for enemy forces. DoD determined that herbicides used on the Thailand base perimeters may have been tactical and procured from Vietnam, or a strong, commercial type resembling tactical herbicides." Use of what.? Herbicides - Possibly but not Agent Orange ! Why ? Tactical herbicides "BLUE" (Not Orange) was used on Vietnam base perimeters. Orange took months to be effective whereas Blue worked overnight. Base commanders wanted their perimeters cleared - "NOW - not three months from now." The VA has not approved Presumptive Exposure to Agent Orange in Thailand Edited 1 time by Ftrooppilot Jan 10 11 1:42 PM.
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BennyRCox		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 494 Jan 10 11 1:57 PM	Well maybe not presumptive, but they were excited and said presumptive. Non the less you can now claim it. I'lll check again,be cause they said they got word it was presumptive on 1-5-2011 so let's wait and see. It's good new for a lot of Thailand Veterans.God Bless
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RVN6768		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 233 Jan 10 11 3:59 PM	Ftrooppilot wrote: "Use of what.? Herbicides - Possibly but not Agent Orange ! Why ? Tactical herbicides "BLUE" (Not Orange) was used on Vietnam base perimeters. Orange took months to be effective whereas Blue worked overnight. Base commanders wanted their perimeters cleared - "NOW - not three months from now." You may be mistaken about that. It would appear that Herbicide Orange was used around at least some base perimeters as well as the other "colors" . There are photographs showing the effects of Orange spraying on the Camp Radcliffe, AnKhe perimeter in November 1967. The photographs and accompanting contemporary notes were taken by J C Raulston an Officer in the Army Chemical Corps and show the effects of Blue and the Orange that was sprayed there, and also photographs of the helicopter spraying equipment. While I don't have specific recollections of any spraying, I was physically present on that perimeter at that exact point in time. He also has some excellent Ranch Hand photographs showing the Herbicide Orange storage areas and planes if you look at the other pages of slides, as well as some excellent photos of Vietnam in general. Looks like in his duties as a Chemical Officer he got all around Vietnam. J C Raulston later became a famous botanist with numerous publications to his credit at Duke University and a major Arboretum (fancy name for a garden I guess) named after him there. You may view these photographs and many other photographs and slides taken by him in Vietnam by Googling "J C Raulston Arboretum". Go to "slides" and click on the search function. Under search type in "Vietnam" under " Country". Page 6 of the slides section show some of the spraying equipment and the photos of the east end of the AnKhe Perimeter after previously being sprayed with Orange. http://www.ncsu.edu/jcraulstonarboretum/photography/raulston_slides/raulston_slides_results.php?pageNum_slides_recordset=5&fullsearch=&Submit=Submit&box=&slide=&date=&photographer=&country=vietnam&usstate=&city=&location=&keywords=&othernotes=&plantnames=&commonnames=&families=&digitized=Yes&plantnameID= Edited 2 times by RVN6768 Jan 10 11 6:57 PM.
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BB		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 542 Jan 10 11 4:32 PM	http://www.ncsu.edu/jcrau...&digitized=&plantnameID= Sgt. (E5) U.S. Army - 67-70 3rd Bde., 2nd Inf. Div. - 68-69 CDCEC - 69-70
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Ftrooppilot		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 872 Jan 10 11 10:45 PM	Base perimeter spraying was extended by tactical needs. Blue nearest the installation with overnight results. Next outer ring was sprayed with white - effective in 30 days. Further out in more of an area coverage could be orange - almost 60-90 days to be effective. AO use around bases would be rare. The slides showed the Army helicopter spray rigs and the use of herbicides white and blue - not orange. They also showed personnel hand spraying "Ensure 210" whatever that is ???? None of this matters in Vietnam because if you were there, you have presumption of exposure. I doubt they will find AO use around Thailand bases. Great photographs in the link. I personally sprayed Hwy 19 a number of times. Some graduate assistant made a mistake labeling Slide: 038-0581 and 0582. They state the perimeter was sprayed with Orange diluted 50/50. Orange (2,4 D and 2,4,5 T) kills broad leaf plants not the narrow leaf grasses shown in the photographs. Herbicide Blue would have been used on the grasses. Edited 2 times by Ftrooppilot Jan 11 11 11:57 AM.
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SteamJockey		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7748 Jan 11 11 12:50 PM	If you served in Thailand during the Vietnam era then you can claim Presumptive for agent orange This is nothing new, It is a direct claim, not presumption. VA has been service connecting veterans who could prove they worked in the perimeter area's of installations in Thailand for several years now. Regards; SteamJockey, resident curmudgeon 50 years service to the Navy and the nation.
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SteamJockey		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7748 Jan 11 11 12:55 PM	DoD determined that herbicides used on the Thailand base perimeters may have been tactical and procured from Vietnam, or a strong, commercial type resembling tactical herbicides. Yeah, some VA apparatchik probably made this up. VA says DOD told them this. They don't produce the evidence, not even a letter from DoD. There is no known evidence of Agent Orange being use in Vietnam. Procured from Vietnam Horse manure!!! It wasn't in the supply system because all tactical herbicides were under custody of ARVN. or a strong, commercial type resembling tactical herbicides Nonsense!!! There has never been any document indicating a 'strong' version of commercial herbicide. This had nothing to do with the 'strength' of herbicide, only the amount of dioxin it contained which was only generated by the production process used for the tactical herbs sold to the Army Chemical Corps. Regards; SteamJockey, resident curmudgeon 50 years service to the Navy and the nation. Edited 1 time by SteamJockey Jan 11 11 1:08 PM.
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witchdoctor		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11385 Jan 11 11 1:22 PM	It would have been virtually impossible to slip something out of an ARVN warehouse without the proper requisitions. Member-at-large: Disturbed Veterans of America.
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LouF		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 12935 Jan 11 11 2:03 PM 10,000 plus post...	witchdoctor wrote: It would have been virtually impossible to slip something out of an ARVN warehouse without the proper requisitions. I am rolling on the floor laughing. NVA probably was using it to keep the Trail clean Lou SSG Santa Fe NM 4/21 11LIB Americal 1/69-8/70 50% PTSD 60% IHD 100% IU P&T
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Prop Pusher	Here We Go Again	#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 214 Jan 11 11 4:13 PM	SteamJockey wrote: DoD determined that herbicides used on the Thailand base perimeters may have been tactical and procured from Vietnam, or a strong, commercial type resembling tactical herbicides. Yeah, some VA apparatchik probably made this up. VA says DOD told them this. They don't produce the evidence, not even a letter from DoD. There is no known evidence of Agent Orange being use in Vietnam. Procured from Vietnam Horse manure!!! It wasn't in the supply system because all tactical herbicides were under custody of ARVN. or a strong, commercial type resembling tactical herbicides Nonsense!!! There has never been any document indicating a 'strong' version of commercial herbicide. This had nothing to do with the 'strength' of herbicide, only the amount of dioxin it contained which was only generated by the production process used for the tactical herbs sold to the Army Chemical Corps. I just can't understand why several people on this network are so adamant that T.L.C. Vets never receive the same consideration as the VN Vets when it comes to ALL Herbicide exposure in SEA. First, I challenge anyone to show me any GOV document, from during the VN War, that refers to any of the herbicides used at the time, as TACTICAL. In every document that I have read from that era, herbicides are referred to as just that, herbicides. The term, TACTICAL, was not used to describe herbicides until well after the war. By adding the term 'Tactical', to the herbicides used in VN, but not to any of the herbicides used in the remainder of SEA, is at best, wrong. From what I've read, the terminology used to reference all herbicide use in SEA was simply, herbicides. As far as the repudiation of the VA rep, really? Again it appears as though some of the people here just won't allow any information to be brought forward that disagrees with their views. Why don't we get some of the ex VA employees to give us an opinion as to how something that important could possibly have gotten out without the approval at the highest levels. So what, if it comes from the GOV, but you disagree with it, it's BS When I first joined this group I was hoping to find some help with my claim. Some helped, or tried to, and some seemed to just want me to quit bringing it up, and I probably will. I just thought that if the GOV came out and flat said all of SEA was exposed, some here would disagree, and still deny TLC Vets the help they deserve. Now, I'm not flaming anyone, and I hope I said this in a respectful manner, but I should have the right to disagree and point out what I think are flaws in others opinions. I will thank them though. I was forced to find information on my own and believe I have what I need to win my appeal.
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Ftrooppilot		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 872 Jan 11 11 4:50 PM	Prop Pusher wrote: First, I challenge anyone to show me any GOV document, from during the VN War, that refers to any of the herbicides used at the time, as TACTICAL. In every document that I have read from that era, herbicides are referred to as just that, herbicides. The term, TACTICAL, was not used to describe herbicides until well after the war. By adding the term 'Tactical', to the herbicides used in VN, but not to any of the herbicides used in the remainder of SEA, is at best, wrong. From what I've read, the terminology used to reference all herbicide use in SEA was simply, herbicides. You may consider reading : http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/reading_room/TacticalHerbicides.pdf "Tactical Herbicides were herbicides developed specifically by the United States Department of Defense to be used in “combat operations .” The history of the military development and use of tactical herbicides dates to World War II. During the Korean Conflict, the DoD developed the first major tactical herbicide, Herbicide Purple, although it was never deployed. Subsequently, for Vietnam the DoD developed, tested, evaluated, and deployed five additional tactical herbicides, Herbicide Pink, Herbicide Green, Herbicide Blue, Herbicide Orange, and Herbicide White. This report discusses the history of the development of the tactical herbicides, how they differed from commercial herbicides, and where they were tested, evaluated, stored, used (in the case of Korea in 1968) OUTSIDE of Vietnam.
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BB		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 542 Jan 11 11 5:40 PM	FWIW, IMO: any (combat) veteran who was (is) exposed to herbicides (defoliants) is entitled to file a claim for compensation to the VBA. Whether presumptive or not, there should be no hesitation to file a claim if the claimant has even one of the current presumptive illnesses. Herbicides contain other ingredients (benzine as a example) that is known have carcinogenic effects, and vets have claimed and been conceded exposed due to these other ingredients. I agree it is a much more difficult road to hoe to win an award via the direct method, but, I also contend that the true depth of the 'herbicide' story will never be known. I believe there are many more instances (locations) where defoliants were sprayed that have not yet been conceded by DoD or the Army. I also agree that so-called experts debunk these claims (by anyone other than VN vets) on this forum regularly without providing anything other than their negative opinions. I am reminded (often) that this whole issue has been evolving for more than 45 years, and, just now, the government is conceding 'some' of the truths. I believe the purpose of this forum is to educate, assist and help vets 'gain' the compensation and awards they are entitled to, not to discourage vets to just forget about it! What you did or where you served does not preclude you from 'seeking' the benefits you may be entitled to... Sgt. (E5) U.S. Army - 67-70 3rd Bde., 2nd Inf. Div. - 68-69 CDCEC - 69-70
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FormerVQ1		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 154 Jan 11 11 5:48 PM	I'm with you Lou. This is funny. Use of chosen words is funny. Everything in Vietnam was under ARVN control. We were there at their request and everything we did was under the control of ARVN, right! These photos are not proof of anything. Just because they show spraying doesn't prove that it actually happened. We would have to take the word of the photographer that these were really taken in Vietnam Just look at those picture(038-0631) of the guys with spray cans of herbicide. That can't be herbicide, it must be mosquito repellant. No combat troops were ever sprayed by herbicides. They are probably not combat troops. They appear to be spraying into the air without any disreguard for their eyes!!! Everybody knows that only ARVN handled AO. That guy standing next to the crane truck in photo 038-0644 can't be an american...he must have been Lowgh Be Houng, a well known ARVN basketball player. Edited 1 time by FormerVQ1 Jan 11 11 5:53 PM.
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CrashNash		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6789 Jan 11 11 5:49 PM	Haven't we beaten this dead horse to death at numerous other threads?? CrashNash
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CrashNash		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6789 Jan 11 11 5:51 PM	Opps got posted twice CrashNash Edited 1 time by CrashNash Jan 11 11 6:59 PM.
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Prop Pusher		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 214 Jan 11 11 6:44 PM	Ftrooppilot wrote: Prop Pusher wrote: First, I challenge anyone to show me any GOV document, from during the VN War, that refers to any of the herbicides used at the time, as TACTICAL. In every document that I have read from that era, herbicides are referred to as just that, herbicides. The term, TACTICAL, was not used to describe herbicides until well after the war. By adding the term 'Tactical', to the herbicides used in VN, but not to any of the herbicides used in the remainder of SEA, is at best, wrong. From what I've read, the terminology used to reference all herbicide use in SEA was simply, herbicides. You may consider reading : http://www.dod.mil/pubs/foi/reading_room/TacticalHerbicides.pdf "Tactical Herbicides were herbicides developed specifically by the United States Department of Defense to be used in “combat operations .” The history of the military development and use of tactical herbicides dates to World War II. During the Korean Conflict, the DoD developed the first major tactical herbicide, Herbicide Purple, although it was never deployed. Subsequently, for Vietnam the DoD developed, tested, evaluated, and deployed five additional tactical herbicides, Herbicide Pink, Herbicide Green, Herbicide Blue, Herbicide Orange, and Herbicide White. This report discusses the history of the development of the tactical herbicides, how they differed from commercial herbicides, and where they were tested, evaluated, stored, used (in the case of Korea in 1968) OUTSIDE of Vietnam. Thanks for making my point Ftrooppilot. Apparently you missed what I clearly said, "...from during the VN war..". In case you did not notice, the report that you cited was written in "2006". Even in that report they don't say, "..Tactical Herbicide Pink, Green, Blue, Orange, or White. Small point, but a point nonetheless. Although I appreciate your service, unless you served in Thailand or had access to the U.S. Ambassador to Thailand, there is no way you know for sure what was used in Thailand. I wish all you guys would spend as much energy helping us find evidence to pursue our claims as you do tearing them down. The GOV has admitted Herbicide use in Thailand. I agree, you can be approved on a direct basis, but it would be a lot less complicated if it was deemed presumptive. Isn't that why they gave it to the Nam Vets, because it was impossible to gather all the records. Do any of you know how small the Thailand bases were? Other than Utapoa, the rest of the bases were nothing more than large fire bases that could handle planes landing and taking off. The base I was on was only about 1mi to 11/2mi wide by 2 mi long to handle the runway. Again, I don't need to prove my claim here, but if they sprayed the perimeters, the entire base was contaminated.
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Omega		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 184 Jan 11 11 7:53 PM	Prop Pusher wrote: I just can't understand why several people on this network are so adamant that T.L.C. Vets never receive the same consideration as the VN Vets when it comes to ALL Herbicide exposure in SEA. As far as the repudiation of the VA rep, really? Again it appears as though some of the people here just won't allow any information to be brought forward that disagrees with their views. Why don't we get some of the ex VA employees to give us an opinion as to how something that important could possibly have gotten out without the approval at the highest levels. So what, if it comes from the GOV, but you disagree with it, it's BS. When I first joined this group I was hoping to find some help with my claim. Some helped, or tried to, and some seemed to just want me to quit bringing it up, and I probably will. I just thought that if the GOV came out and flat said all of SEA was exposed, some here would disagree, and still deny TLC Vets the help they deserve. Now, I'm not flaming anyone, and I hope I said this in a respectful manner, but I should have the right to disagree and point out what I think are flaws in others opinions. I will thank them though. I was forced to find information on my own and believe I have what I need to win my appeal. Prop Pusher, I would encourage you to not give up in your quest. I have observed this site for around a year or so, and it is an excellent source of Agent Orange and other veteran information. But, I also say this. This site is not the only source of information for veterans. There are others out there, some just as good as this one and others that could use some improvement. I would urge you to continue to constantly search for information that you think will help your case as Thailand (or SEA) veteran. There is a wealth of veteran information on the internet. But, you have to dig for it. On any forum and this one is no exception, you will always find some members that are cooperative and helpful, some with giant egos, and some who may want you to think they know a lot more than you do. And yes, some might even be perceived as talking down to a vet in the course of conveying the information to the veteran (I get really amused at those "experts"). But when it comes down to it, they're just all in the same melting pot. I think the key, here, is to use what information that you find informative and simply discard that which you deem to be irrelevant, incorrect, offensive, or is simply not worthy of a response from you. I do that all the time. It doesn't bother me at all. I wish you continued success and do not give up on this forum. Omega
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