Hearing Loss in C&P - Compensation & Pension Exams, DBQ's and Appeals. Forum

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Hearing Loss

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rswelch	Hearing Loss		Lead	[-]
Posts: 17 Jul 22 09 6:31 PM	I had my original C&P exam in Tucsan Az last November and was awarded 10% hearing loss and 10% for tinnitus. When I went to the VA in SLC Utah to get started with hearing aids I was given another test it showed my hearing to be a lot worse than the C&P, so I was sent for further testing by an ENT. I was cleared by him in early June and have been waiting for an audiology appt since. I finally got in this week and the audiologist gave me another test and said it showed much better hearing. The problem is that I was shocked at the way she gave me the test when it came to the speech discrimination part she kept repeating the words over and over until I guessed them I was so upset and nervous when it was over it took me hours to calm down. My question is I feel like I need another complete exam and my rating needs to be increased, what do I need to do can I request another C&P exam? How do I go about getting a rating increase? I know that the speech discrimination is on the border of me going from 10% to 30 or 40% When my last exam was complete I asked for a copy of the results and was given it but hi-lighted on the paper it could not be used for rating purposes. I know why it in no way was right. Anyone please help!
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Stillhere		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6639 Jul 22 09 7:09 PM	I would suggest you go to an outside audiologist for a test and letter. Mine only cost a $100 bucks. I have NEVER had good results with VA audiologist especially for C&P's! Anyone disputing that is not hard of hearing.
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brianwl		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 11847 Jul 22 09 7:25 PM Does not play well With others.	rswelch, If I'm reading your post correctly you've had 1 C&P exam, only, and that exam resulted in your 10% rating. All other audiology exams have been clinical. Assuming I'm right, if you want to get a new C&P exam because your hearing is worse, you need to submit a claim for an increase in your rating. With that said, you're already on track for hearing aids and that is the important part. As for how the person that did the last exam did it, let it be. It has no affect on your rating because it was not a C&P exam. If during a C&P exam the examiner plays the same game, just don't answer. The test is about what you hear the first time, not when it is repeated over and over. I agree with Stillhere, for some reason the folks doing Audiology C&Ps seem to have an agenda, at least that's my experience.
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SgtD6970		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 4277 Jul 22 09 7:36 PM	I would like to add to what has been said....The C&P exam is different from the hearing test you normally receive and even if the regular hearing test shows your hearing to be worst it doesn't mean nothing until you have a C&P exam... I had 3 hearing test over a period of a couple of months and they showed my hearing to be worst but then I requested an increase and the C&P exam came back the same as the one before and I remain at 10%. If you do try to get an increase good luck to you...Sgt D US Army Retired Vietnam 1969-70 90% IU P&T SSDI
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rswelch	hearing loss	#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 17 Jul 22 09 11:59 PM	Stillhere, Will the Va accept an outside audiology test for the purpose of a ratings increase? What did you mean by a letter? Would appreciate any info.
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Stillhere		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6639 Jul 23 09 7:34 AM	Since you are already SC for hearing loss you will not need a letter but might help if you explain how your hearing loss effects your daily living. On the outside evaluation the VA will accept an evaluation from a private audiologist. If it contradicts the VA test then it will be a toss up who the rater believes.
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rswelch		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 17 Jul 23 09 10:36 AM	When the original results came back they denied sc of the right ear therefore my left ear that is completely deaf was rated at a lower amount. The right ear is bad also so we did get the sc on it in May. The decible loss in the right ear is bad enough for it to be rated at 30% The only thing holding it back is the speech discrimination which was rated originaly at 84 in the right earwhich is right on the line if it were 1percent lower I would be rated higher. I don't feel it is that high as I can barelyunderstand anything that is said in conversation. Hopefully the aids will help but I feel I have suffered far too long to just let this go. The thing is with hearing loss it is a black and white issue and if they want to they can skew the results for their purpose. I am going to try to get an outside audiologist check it just for my own peace of mind.
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Gunny	Ask for another C&P (or not...)	#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 15 Jul 24 09 12:32 AM	VA Audio exam worksheet/checklist: http://www.vba.va.gov/bln/21/benefits/exams/disexm05.htm Have your private Audiologist follow the checklist (if you so choose). Ensure he/she is a "state certified Audiologist." When rendering the Maryland CNC (speech regognition) test he/she should pronounce the word 1 time only and record your response(s). The hearing test is a lenghty one if performed correctly, and should give you a good idea of where you are in that arena. If you're using a private physician (Audiologist) and are TriCare, use TriCare for the exam. 38 CFR applicability: http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2c42659783945e9c2ffc8ac6482ddae5&rgn=div8&view=text&node=38:1.0.1.1.4.2.67.172&idno=38 http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=2c42659783945e9c2ffc8ac6482ddae5&rgn=div8&view=text&node=38:1.0.1.1.5.2.99.36&idno=38 http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=2c42659783945e9c2ffc8ac6482ddae5;rgn=div8;view=text;node=38%3A1.0.1.1.5.2.99.37;idno=38;cc=ecfr http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr;sid=2c42659783945e9c2ffc8ac6482ddae5;rgn=div8;view=text;node=38%3A1.0.1.1.5.2.99.38;idno=38;cc=ecfr Lastly: http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:2R1dGJHo5nQJ:www.etsu.edu/cpah/commdis/VA%2520AudioCD/download/Maryland%2520CNC%2520Word%2520List.doc+Maryland+CNC&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ph Edited 1 time by Gunny Jul 24 09 12:38 AM.
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wvvet55		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 Jul 24 09 4:40 PM	RS, I happen to notice that none of your mentioned "speech discrimination parts" were of the "recorded Maryland CNC Word list"as mentioned as mentioned in the Audio section that is to be used for C&P exams.I had a comprehenshive audiology exam done on June 12th,that included a recorded word list,in fact the whole exam was computerized,except maybe for the audiologist setting comfort levels.I was able to pick up a copy of the exam about half hour later.On June 27th,had a C&P exam at another VAMC,and the examining audiologist "read" the words to me to repeat,but didn't have to go through the rest of the exam,because she accepted the test from the 12th.The results for word list on the 12th was 88% in both ears,and 84%(R) and 88%(L). I'm just curious,as to when the C&P exam specifies a "recorded" word list format,why is it not done that way?, that being said might lessen the potential for the frustration you went through.Maybe not all VAMCs have caught on to the computerized format yet.I personally like it.Maybe you could check with VAMC's in your area and ask if they do computerized format.Like SgtD mentions about the different results in his hearing tests and C&P.But when it comes down to it,the C&P is the one that matters.Perhaps as you say,get an outside test for your own peace of mind,then compare with other results.Then with those results,you'll have some added documentation to be considered. Best of luck to you Bro..I know how frustrating it is.
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RVN6768		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 233 Jul 25 09 12:06 PM	brianwl wrote: I agree with Stillhere, for some reason the folks doing Audiology C&Ps seem to have an agenda, at least that's my experience. I don't know if there is an agenda that all the audiology examiners are on but I think the one that did mine was trying to ingratiate himself with the RO, and his agenda was to get hired for more C&Ps. Edited 1 time by RVN6768 Jul 25 09 12:23 PM.
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rswelch		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 17 Jul 25 09 6:52 PM	It is mighty funny to me that my speech discrimintaion was right on the line to keep me at 10%. I don't know what is going on but I will get to the bottom of it.
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Stillhere		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6639 Jul 26 09 7:44 AM	An old VSO of mine once told me how many times in the day to day environment are you in a sound proof booth and listening to some one talk? He went on to say if you do not know the word spoken do not guess at it. Then you will get a test that is accurate on your level. I personally even with my aid have to have people repeat things two and three times. Or I answer someone on a question that is way off base and they said did you hear what I asked you?
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wvvet55		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 122 Jul 26 09 12:31 PM	I know to well what you guys are dealing with on my June 12th exam (computerized),my level of hearing loss was documented "moderate to severe sloping mixed loss in right ear & moderate to severe sloping snhl in left".For my C&P on June 27th "(R) was mixed moderately severe to profound & (L) moderate to profound sensorineural".,though previous exams from past years do show some profound documentation. It can be frustrating,RS but I have no doubts you will eventually get to the bottom of the matter.I have even noticed in past,when going for an exam,I would provide an audiologist with a copy of previous exam,and the audiologist would copy some of the results from a previous to one being done.You really have to watch what the examiner is doing.After my last C&P,I asked the examiner "what my word recognition was?",she replied "low to mid 80's,but when I got a copy of the C&P,it was more like "mid to upper 80's".This same audiologist had done my last C&P(as well as exam for hearing aides in 2007),and we just reviewed my last results and it was yes or no questions.
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AMU		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 Jul 27 09 1:04 PM	My VA C&P contract audiologist was incompetent, and it took me a year to get a proper C&P retest which resulted in an increase from 50% disability to 90%. My suggestion is to reapply, as someone has already said. Also, get in touch with a VA assistance person (Texas, for example, has a special state funded VA assistance program that's not part of VA itself and is excellent in helping with situations like yours). Maybe AZ does too? Bottom line: you need someone who is experienced with VA paperwork and procedures to help you on the ground where you now reside. Check locally to see what is available. Your local VA can probably steer you to a local non-VA org. for help.
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lazeelink	The Same Experience	#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 Dec 12 09 3:59 PM	Unbelievable! My experiences with a VA audiologist were eerily similar to rswelch. She literally told me things such as "this will raise a red flag" and "we have to get it closer to last time", referring to the differences between my last test (Feb. 06) and the most recent (Mar. 08). I also was shocked and intimidated just as rswelch described. I complained to the VA with zero results. Finally I received a DRO meeting and he has set me up for another exam next week. I also have private audiogram results that represent the true condition of my hearing and will present that at the test. We'll see if the VA audiologist will use part of it or not.
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Stillhere		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6639 Dec 13 09 10:56 AM	SORRY THAT YOU ARE HAVING WHAT APPEARS TO AN under rating situation at the VA for hearing loss. I Was denied in 83 for any kind of help and had to pay outside for everything until 05 when i signed on with VA. I have an appeal to BVA to get this corrected and I plan a lawyer for the Appeals court if that is unsuccessfull. I have a meeting at the BVA requested since I live close and when I get my day I plan on bringing this up. I also will bring up the fact that the number 1 disability by payment is hearing loss. it makes absolutely no sense for RO after to RO deny these claims when it is a proven fact that hearing loss that starts in the military in a war zone almost always happens. It might not show until years down the road but when it does the vet should be compensated for the damage done.
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lazeelink		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 Dec 15 09 4:21 PM	Yes, I do believe that I am under rated for my hearing. Using the results of the private audiogram, I should be 40%. I didn't mention a visit to an ENT resulted in not only the audiogram but a brain MRI to check for any obstructions, all at my expense of course. I submitted all of that documentation to the VA so I'm not sure if the pendulum has swung back in my favor or not. If you have any suggestions about how to go about taking this upcoming VA test I would appreciate the input. My understanding is guessing at some of the words as suggested by the VA audiologist in the speech recognition test can hurt more than it can help. What are your thoughts about presenting the audiologist with a copy of my private test results?
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Stillhere		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 6639 Dec 15 09 7:00 PM	My audiologist is usually very easy to deal with and if I have had some test on the outside she will go over it with me. The VA audiologist department does want to help you hear with the correct aid and all test have their own benefit showing different condition. Not sure with a C&P at the VA never had one but I would take my paper work and show it to them to compare with what they come up with. Ask question also I also do not guess at anything if I have to guess in public I get myself in trouble. So why guess with them, I am not saying lie or cheat but I am saying be truthful and you will get the correct aid and rating. Good Luck to!
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lazeelink		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 8 Dec 17 09 3:16 PM	I went through my third C&P VA audiogram today and wonder if anyone cares to comment on my observations. The VA examiner introduced himself as "doctor"M. The first thing I did was hand him a copy of an audiogram conducted by a private source, brain MRI and notes of the ENT who ordered the testing. He said he would "take a look". My test was short compared to the other two I had previously had perhaps half the time, and no preliminary questions were asked. The amount of speech recognition words was only about 20 in total. When questioned about my results he only commented "not quite as bad as the private audiogram but speech recognition is a definite problem" and also asked if I had the prescribed MRI even though that info was indeed in the ENT notes. The optimistic part of me wants to feel he took much of the results on the private testing and perhaps swayed him into using much of that info (a plus for me) The pessimistic side says he was behind schedule and all he did was blow me off in route to the next patient. I know all we can do is speculate, but your comments/ experiences are welcome.
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