ptsd claim denied in PTSD Specific Discussions/Claims/Issues Forum

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ptsd claim denied

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dmjones	ptsd claim denied		Lead	[-]
Posts: 7 Aug 8 08 11:44 AM	Tags : None I was reading another thread where another vet was turned down for ptsd. I was also turned down for the same reason. It stated that the Joint Records Research center could not verify what I said. It is now on an NOD. I was a door gunner on a helicopter and was in many situations that would scare you to death but there was one main thing that finally got to me. I never remember anybody keeping a diary of our daily events. They also added that I could not furnish a specific date. I finally started seeing a VA psych. and he has give me GAF scores each time of 49 and placed me on meds. I thought that if a veteran was placed in a situation that the circumstance could have have happened to him and that with the psych. evaluation he would be given the benefit of doubt. I was there forty plus years ago and can not even remember the names of vets I served with. I spent years unsuccessfully trying to block that 13 months out of my mind. sorry for being soo long but I needed to vent with people who could understand.
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DanMedic		#1	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 8 08 11:58 AM	Hey dmjones, Welcome home brother!! Yeah I think I'm the one you are referring to in regards to the PTSD denial. Did you supply them with a statement in support of your claim?(form 21-0781). They should have asked you for it after you filed your claim if you didn't submit one at the same time. Don't overly fret just keep gathering evidence and continue seeing your Dr.Keep good records and copy's of everything!!! Your story is almost exactly like mine. No memory of people, dates etc. We aren't alone on that one tho. Since coming to the VBN board I have found we are the rule, not the exception. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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DEROS1969		#2	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2781 Aug 8 08 12:02 PM
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nmfxstc		#3	[url]	[-]
Posts: 25185 Aug 8 08 12:11 PM	Do you have a flight log? What unit were you assigned to (the daily reports will certainlny place you in some situation...they are pretty inclusive). Your DD 214 should show dates...and your EPRs would show your duties, etc. and I'd think make mention of operations, etc. Remember that in order for a claim to be successful, you must have three elements: - a diagnosis - a service connection - a nexusu tyinig the two together. Do some research and hunt down some records...this is your claim and a lot of it will depend upon some legwqork on your part. Best of luck in this effort. Fillean meal ar an meallaire.
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cruiser		#4	[url]	[-]
Posts: 17413 Aug 8 08 12:37 PM	dmjones wrote: I was a door gunner on a helicopter and was in many situations that would scare you to death but there was one main thing that finally got to me. I never remember anybody keeping a diary of our daily events. I saw this quite a bit when I worked PTSD claims at VA. Quite a few Vietnam Army veterans cite the fact that they were door gunners as a stressor with nothing in either their medical records or their personnel records reflecting this duty. In clear cut cases the DD 214's show Aircrew Wings and the medical records show flight physicals and the personnel records show orders to flight duty. Generally this is enough to support a claim of combat service involving aerial flight. In all of the others there is simply no record of crewmember flight status. I flew aircrew in the Navy and it is well documented in my records as it is in all of the Marine Corps and Air Force claims that I worked. What was it with the Army? Were they just sticking guys in helicopters as crewmembers with absolutely no documentation? And if so, why were they clearly documenting some and not others? After all you do receive Strike/Flight Air Medals for every so many combat missions. Do any of your records document aircrew status? Cruiser
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.		#5	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2420 Aug 8 08 12:56 PM	dmjones, What cruiser is telling you is spot on. I had to prove that I was involved in combat before I got approved. My job was a Peoplesniffer(Airborne Personell Detector). This kinda through them for a loop as I don't think they encountered this before so I had to work my azz off proving this. I did have a Air Medal and a Aircraft Crewman Badge and a Bronze star which they did take into consideration. They found records through the service center that we actually flew x amount of missions during my time there and said the job would have been considered to be engaged in combat with the enemy and I won my claim 1 week before my scheduled Dro hearing based on Reasonable Doubt. Don't give up and hang in there they have records of your unit somewhere Edited 2 times by Aug 8 08 1:00 PM.
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DanMedic		#6	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 8 08 1:12 PM	Cruiser, this problem with the Army keeping records was around even before I got home from Nam. I noticed that while stationed at 7th Med when we had morning sick call that 1/2 the time the Doctors didn't write anything in the soldiers medical record. Lots of things like that. I almost broke my ankle during an alert when we were getting incoming Mortar fire. (I be running FAST in the dark headed for our foxholes, in the middle of the compound, and tripped over a guy who wasn't running fast enough) I was treated by my own Captain (Dr.) and was put on limited duty for 10 days. It was never written down, it was all done verbally. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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lvacjoub		#7	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1414 Aug 8 08 3:18 PM	Dan, that incident you describe could be considered a stressor incident - I've seen copies of the Daily staff Journal or Duty officers Log, DA Form 1594, indicating stuff like that - here's one from one of my claims: time: "0915" in the next block under incidents, messages, orders, etc: " a LOH flying at 80' and 60kts rec an unknown no of rds of s/a..." The sheet is numbered 1 of three and identifies the unit and location - APO 96491 - the designation of a popular tropical vacation spot for young men in the late 60's and early 70's - you or some others here might recall those numbers ): Sounds like someone was angry about the noise or something The fact that your base took incoming fire is likely recorded on one of these forms, and all you need is to identify the unit, base, and a date - records clerks will search 30 days back & 30 days forward of any date you supply on the stressor form. Indeed, if those mortar rounds hit anything like equipment or people, there will be a lot of records of the incident..
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DanMedic		#8	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 8 08 3:27 PM	ivac, Well as soon as I can find out where 7th Med was located I have a good chance of getting all sorts of information. So far nothing. I even have my Congressman looking into it because it makes no damn sense that I remember it and it is identified as my last duty station in Vietnam but no one else in the Army (records etc) seems to know it exists. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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lvacjoub		#9	[url]	[-]
Posts: 1414 Aug 8 08 4:17 PM	Dan, I don't think you need the location of the detachment as much as you need the unit designation down to company level...
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idapaul		#10	[url]	[-]
Posts: 365 Aug 8 08 4:23 PM	Dan; you are right about the army not being able to keep records. i came in country in nha trang for about 3 months at 8th field as a cook. got sent to 51st med in quinhon and spent about 2-3 weeks as a litter bearer at 67th evac,then got sent to 498th dust off and worked in supply/motor pool also flew some as a volunteer patient protector.i was there about 5 months. 51st finally stood down and somebody at battalion figured out i wasn't there so i got called back to battalion to pull guard duty. spent the last couple months on guard duty. but i got excellent evaluations as a cook,i never saw a mess hall from the time i left 8th field. and no record exists of being at 498th for 5 months. service records say i was at 51st. must have been a dream. have tried to prove it but no one will own up to the fact that we had guns on the chopper.i have been told multiple times i was mistaken. finally said ** it free your mind and your a will follow
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OIFVetWife		#11	[url]	[-]
Posts: 843 Aug 8 08 5:21 PM ROLL TIDE!	Cruiser & all - Was just reading my husband this thread and he said something very interesting. He said the Army still sticks guys in as door gunners sometimes with no documentation. He (my hubby) went on a mission as a door gunner as a "volunteer" - no documentation, etc. And that was just 2 yrs ago... the only requirement to go was being able to handle a 240B (replacement of the M60). They really ought to do a better job of handling that! Proud wife of an OIF Vet. Passionate advocate for Veterans & Families! www.FamilyOfAVet.com: Resources & Support for OIF/OEF Vet Families (PTSD, TBI, & Life After Combat!) www.VietnamVeteranWives.org: Non-Profit Offering Info & Support for All Veterans AND Their Families. Important survey for OIF/OEF Veterans and their families. Please help us make a difference in your life! CLICK HERE!!
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ggold7211		#12	[url]	[-]
Posts: 3421 Aug 8 08 7:40 PM	That is the problem with this world too many doorgunners and not enough grunts! It just ain't fair! Gold 67-68 VIETNAM 70-71 THAILAND
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dmjones		#13	[url]	[-]
Posts: 7 Aug 9 08 10:49 AM	My mos was 67n20 which I was a crew chief/doorgunner. I have a air medal with several oak leaf clusters . I also have a bronze star. This was mentioned but they said I did not have either with "v" device. I had never even heard of the"v" device until a few years ago . Evidently my unit hadn't either because many crewmembers sure deserved them. I have also flown people sniffer missions as one vet was saying. I even have stick time and have flown all kinds of missions doing anything a helicopter can do and some that you wouldn't believe. I have my dd-214 that tells dates and unit and mos. If you look up my mos it says helicopter mechanic. Your dd-214 does not show flight amounts but does list medals. Sorry ,this was ment as a reply to cruiser but I hit the wrong key. Edited 2 times by dmjones Aug 9 08 11:06 AM.
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DanMedic		#14	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 9 08 3:20 PM	dm, You need ALL your military records for this. Your DD214 is not enough. Also Unit records for the time you were there,if you can get them, and buddy letters IF you have any you remember or still have contact with. Think of it as preparing to go out on a mission. You wouldn't forget your ammo forget to fuel up the chopper, that kind of thing. Prepare EVERY PIECE OF MATERIAL you can get your hands on. Don't give up or give in, ok. You made it this far since Nam and you WILL get VA care in some form or other so fight the good fight and keep smilin brother because that's how we made it before. Dan Edit: Oh and just because THEY can't find the records doesn't mean anything.!!!!!!!!!!! My own searching that I have done has given me my own ammo. Pus the VA's Psychiatrist's report and a few other things WILL get me my PTSD rating. Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today....... Edited 1 time by DanMedic Aug 9 08 3:24 PM.
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DanMedic		#15	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 9 08 3:27 PM	ggold7211 wrote: That is the problem with this world too many doorgunners and not enough grunts! It just ain't fair! Gold 67-68 VIETNAM 70-71 THAILAND ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ah but Gold, that wonderful chopper sound with the nice chatter of the 60's spewing lead as they came over our position more than made up for it. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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Rougetet		#16	[url]	[-]
Posts: 751 Aug 10 08 1:42 AM legend in his own mind	Many of the comments above indicate problems with "proving" something occurred. Some have even indicated going to the JSRRC record files did not help. Here is another way to get unit records: http://vets.yuku.com/topic/16271. Be creative with your search criteria and you may find some records that would help your claim.
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Rougetet		#17	[url]	[-]
Posts: 751 Aug 10 08 2:34 AM legend in his own mind	cruiser wrote: <snip>... After all you do receive Strike/Flight Air Medals for every so many combat missions. Do any of your records document aircrew status? Cruiser I know when I was in Vietnam it was up to the individual to keep a log of combat flight time to then support award of the Air Medal given for so many hours of combat flight - at least that is what I needed to do for the unit I was in. I had enough time as an attached aerial observer with a cavalry squadron to support what I estimated to be about 33 Air Medal awards. After I kept the log to support the first one I quit keeping track of my hours through the log so never sought the other estimated 32 that could have been given to me. Other Army "guys" may have been in the same situation and just didn't bother documenting those Air Medal awards and some may not have even been aware they needed to do so. Just FYI...
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DanMedic		#18	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 10 08 3:01 PM	lvacjoub wrote: Dan, I don't think you need the location of the detachment as much as you need the unit designation down to company level... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ That's it in a nutshell really. I remember 7th Med ONLY. No company, nothing. I THINK it was an Engineering Compound and have searched all of those but no luck. This is like looking for a needle in a haystack with the haystack the size of S. Vietnam. Fun stuff actually. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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OIFVetWife		#19	[url]	[-]
Posts: 843 Aug 10 08 7:21 PM ROLL TIDE!	Dan - I don't know if this will help, but I stumbled across it. It's someone else searching for 7th Med info. Maybe if you e-mail that guy, he'll have some info to share... www.usarmygermany.com/Units/Medical/USAREUR_7thMedBde.htm Also, this page references the Medical Command Structure in VN and says 7th "Surg" instead of "Med" and says they were in Cu Chi & Xuan Loc www.illyria.com/evacs.html Then this page (history.amedd.army.mil/booksdocs/vietnam/medicalsupport/chapter1.htm) says: The 406th Mobile Medical Laboratory, based in Japan, was reorganized on 24 September 1963 to include a mobile laboratory unit attached to USASGV. Envisioned as a Pacific Command-wide laboratory service for all U.S. military medical facilities, the 406th Mobile Medical Laboratory replaced and absorbed the personnel and equipment of the 7th Medical Laboratory, previously operative in Vietnam. Throughout the Vietnam conflict, the 406th Mobile Medical Laboratory remained under the command of USARJ (United States Army, Japan). While operating in Vietnam, however, it was attached to and operationally controlled by various in-country medical headquarters. I don't know if any of that will help. I'll confess I'm ignorant of the medical side of the army (just know I was thankful for my hubby's Line Medic!)I'll keep nosing around. Proud wife of an OIF Vet. Passionate advocate for Veterans & Families! www.FamilyOfAVet.com: Resources & Support for OIF/OEF Vet Families (PTSD, TBI, & Life After Combat!) www.VietnamVeteranWives.org: Non-Profit Offering Info & Support for All Veterans AND Their Families. Important survey for OIF/OEF Veterans and their families. Please help us make a difference in your life! CLICK HERE!! Edited 2 times by OIFVetWife Aug 10 08 7:26 PM.
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DanMedic		#20	[url]	[-]
Posts: 2150 Aug 11 08 6:56 AM	Thanks VetWife. I have seen all of that already. I even thought that it could have been 7th Med Lab but it wasn't. Thanks for helping. I can use any and all help. You are a sweet heart. Dan Vietnam--'69--'70 MOS's 91A10 & 92B20 311th Fld Hosp. - 17th Field Hosp.- 7th Med. Det.. It's all about Today.......
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